Taxacom: Carposinoidea or Copromorphoidea?

Tue Jul 30 09:17:56 CDT 2024

You are correct. If the two families are considered synonymous, the older
name should be used, and if the two are placed in the same superfamily
while treated as separate families, then the older family-level name
applies for the superfamily. Also, you are correct that plenty of online
sources don't follow the Code well and/or have inadequate error checking.

On Monday, July 29, 2024, Soowon Cho via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
wrote:

> Dear members,
>
> Thank you for your replies. I want to describe the problem in detail here
> so that you can see exactly what the problems are and can advise me on what
> to do.
>
> 1. The following is what I found and know now:
>
> Carposina Herrich-Schäffer, 1853
> Carposina berberidella Herrich-Schäffer, 1853
> Carposinidae Walsingham, 1897
>
> Copromorpha gypsota Meyrick, 1886
> Copromorpha Meyrick, 1886
> Copromorphidae Meyrick, 1905
> Carposinoidea Walsingham, 1897
>
> 2. The following is what I could find from the Wikipedia:
>
> Carposinoidea in Wikipedia:
> ~ The superfamily is also known as Copromorphoidea, which is a junior
> synonym.
> ~ It has been suggested that the division into two families should be
> abandoned (e.g. Holloway et al., 2001).
> In the references: Holloway, J.D., Kibby, G and Peggie, D. (1997).
> [Probably not 1997 but 2001] The families of Malesian moths and
> butterflies. Fauna Malesia Handbooks. 455 pp. Brill Academic Publishers,
> Leiden.
>
> Carposinidae in Wikipedia:
> ~ It is considered possible that the family is artificial, being nested
> within Copromorphidae (Dugdale et al., 1999).
> In the references: Dugdale, J.S., Kristensen, N.P., Robinson, G.S. and
> Scoble, M.J. (1999) [1998]. The smaller microlepidoptera grade
> superfamilies, Ch.13., pp. 217–232 in Kristensen, N.P. (Ed.). Lepidoptera,
> Moths and Butterflies. Volume 1: Evolution, Systematics, and Biogeography.
> Handbuch der Zoologie. Eine Naturgeschichte der Stämme des Tierreiches /
> Handbook of Zoology. A Natural History of the phyla of the Animal Kingdom.
> Band / Volume IV Arthropoda: Insecta Teilband / Part 35: 491 pp. Walter de
> Gruyter, Berlin, New York.
>
> Copromorphidae in Wikipedia:
> ~ Unlike Carposinidae the mouthparts include "labial palps" with the second
> rather than third segment the longest. With other unusual structural
> characteristics of the caterpillar and adult, it could represent the sister
> lineage of all other extant members of this superfamily (Dugdale et al.,
> 1999).
> In the references: Dugdale, J.S., Kristensen, N.P., Robinson, G.S. and
> Scoble, M.J. (1999). The smaller microlepidoptera grade superfamilies,
> Ch.13., pp. 217–232 in Kristensen, N.P. (Ed.). Lepidoptera, Moths and
> Butterflies. Volume 1: Evolution, Systematics, and Biogeography. Handbuch
> der Zoologie. Eine Naturgeschichte der Stämme des Tierreiches / Handbook of
> Zoology. A Natural History of the phyla of the Animal Kingdom. Band /
> Volume IV Arthropoda: Insecta Teilband / Part 35: 491 pp. Walter de
> Gruyter, Berlin, New York.
>
> Copromorphoidea in Wikipedia: redirected to Carposinoidea
>
> 3. The following is where Copromorphoidea, instead of Carposinoidea, is
> accepted.
>
> nic.FUNET
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fftp.funet.fi%2Findex%2FTree_of_life%2Finsecta%2Flepidoptera%2Fditrysia%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cea797a5ae0c249dfdaae08dcb0a26ac8%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638579461400423895%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=18CW967Ab3XFgi78AOSGhiISbMpONwYlF02vddHa%2BZI%3D&reserved=0
> copromorphoidea/#R1
> noting as follows:
> Copromorphoidea Meyrick, 1905
>   Carposinoidea Walsingham, 1897
>
> Indiana Nature LLC
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indiananature.net%2Fpages%2Ftaxa%2FAnimalia%2Fc%2FCopromorphoidea.php&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cea797a5ae0c249dfdaae08dcb0a26ac8%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638579461400423895%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=f1QRk3Pp051wZJN0y1RvwCKZ8L%2BY1zbXdrWBlFKbUgU%3D&reserved=0
> noting as follows:
> ~ Superfamily Copromorphoidea — Fruitworm Moths
>   Hampson, 1918
> ~ Copromorphoidea was formerly named Carposinoidea; a name that is still
> sometimes used as a synonym.
>
> Animal Diversity Web
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fanimaldiversity.org%2Faccounts%2FCopromorphoidea%2Fclassification%2F%23&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cea797a5ae0c249dfdaae08dcb0a26ac8%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638579461400423895%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WbBOlLidKtwnkL5%2Fo9d9iNspnUfIlTz3suH4vd1WKPY%3D&reserved=0
> Copromorphoidea
> ~ Superfamily Copromorphoidea
>   Family Carposinidae
>   Family Copromorphidae
>
> biodiversity.org.au
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbiodiversity.org.au%2Fafd%2Ftaxa%2FCOPROMORPHOIDEA&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cea797a5ae0c249dfdaae08dcb0a26ac8%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638579461400580131%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nwmAJGnC6ap4Z6B2D7x46CrcQJCPcJJnNVp4mhOtEew%3D&reserved=0
> ~ Superfamily COPROMORPHOIDEA
>  [No name found matching Carposinoidea.]
>
> Wikimedia Commons
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCategory%3ACopromorphoidea&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cea797a5ae0c249dfdaae08dcb0a26ac8%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638579461400580131%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gWjz2zRDPQhzlwa7fT51DY%2For4SG7sFdhCD7goOyQAo%3D&reserved=0
> ~ Category:Copromorphoidea
> ~ Authority file [section includes the following:]
>   Wikidata Q902490
>   NCBI taxonomy ID: 104437
>   ITIS TSN: 693935
>   Encyclopedia of Life ID: 786
>   GBIF taxon ID: 1828
>   Fauna Europaea ID: 5560
>   BugGuide taxon ID: 163984
>   iNaturalist taxon ID: 173392
>
>
> As replied by Dr. Yanega and others, I think the superfamily name should be
> Carposinoidea, not Copromorphoidea, but there still are some major sites
> that accept the name Copromorphoidea.
> Together with some notes in Wikipedia, I found a case where the superfamily
> name is Carposinidea, while the family name under Carposinoidea is
> Copromorphidae and included all the species of Carposinidae under
> Copromorphidae.
>
> My understanding is that the superfamily name is Carposinoidea, the family
> names are either "Copromorphidae and Carposinidae", or, if the two families
> are combined, "Carposinidae." Am I wrong? Or are we not following the ICZN
> anymore?
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> 2024년 7월 26일 (금) 오후 11:46, Douglas Yanega via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu>님이
> 작성:
>
> > On 7/25/24 5:42 PM, Soowon Cho via Taxacom wrote:
> > > Well, back to my original question, do you agree that the family name
> > > Copromorphidae (including all the carposinid species) is under the
> > > superfamily name Carposinoidea? What about vice versa?
> >
> > That is a nomenclatural question, not a taxonomic question.
> >
> > If the sources I have found are correct, then we have:
> >
> > Copromorphidae Meyrick, 1905
> >
> > Carposinidae Walsingham, 1897
> >
> > The latter has nomenclatural precedence in that case, so if these two
> > families are placed in the same superfamily (and there are no other
> > names competing), then the name of that superfamily is Carposinoidea
> > Walsingham, 1897.
> >
> > I will note that for some reason, various sources cite the superfamily
> > and family names as having different authors and dates, but under the
> > ICZN this is literally impossible.
> >
> > That is, "Copromorphidae" is attributed to Meyrick, 1905 while
> > "Copromorphoidea" is attributed to Hampson, 1918. The "Principle of
> > Coordination", defined in Article 36 of the Code, means that ANY name
> > proposed at any of the three Code-defined ranks (family-rank,
> > genus-rank, and species-rank) are considered to have been proposed at
> > *all sub-ranks* simultaneously. A name proposed for a tribe is, under
> > the Code, also being *effectively* proposed as a subfamily, family, and
> > superfamily name, and will have priority over any name proposed
> > originally AS a higher rank but published later. It is irrelevant if
> > Hampson was the first person to TREAT the group as a superfamily,
> > because Meyrick was the first to publish an available name FOR that
> > superfamily.
> >
> > Under the Code, these are very different things. One act is taxonomic
> > (treating a group as a certain rank above genus), the other act is
> > nomenclatural (proposing a name for a rank higher than genus).
> >
> > SIncerely,
> >
> > --
> > Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
> > Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314     skype: dyanega
> > FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
> >               https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.ucr.edu%2F~heraty%2Fyanega.html&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cea797a5ae0c249dfdaae08dcb0a26ac8%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638579461400580131%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=A0vA%2B197knvIQm2IrVH6FpN%2BZClKRMWlhdw9SivGyk8%3D&reserved=0
> >    "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
> >          is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
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> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Soowon Cho
> chosoowon at gmail.com
> Dept Plant Medicine
> Chungbuk Nat'l Univ
> Cheongju, 361-763
> KOREA
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
>
>
>

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Department of Natural Sciences
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