Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta

Thu Feb 15 17:38:19 CST 2024

Registered=Published=Available.  It's the obvious solution to all this mess (and a great deal of mess over the past 250+ years).  Yes, it requires funding and careful thought to build.  Yes, it comes with new sources of potential "mess".  But these are relatively small prices to pay compared to the growing mess being created by the status quo, and the even BIGGER mess that would have occurred if there were no Amendment to the Code accommodating electronic publications.  As messy as the status quo is, it could be a WHOLE lot worse.  And as costly as it may seem to follow the suggestion of the Introduction of Code-4 to come up with a new paradigm for "published" in the sense of the Code, the costs are trivial compared to the benefits of streamlining the Code-compliancy and overall stability of zoological nomenclature.

Apologies for jumping into this late -- I'm currently in the field, at Wake Atoll, and days are busy with limited email access.

Aloha,
Rich

Richard L. Pyle, PhD
Director of Natural Sciences | Director of EXCORE
Senior Curator of Ichthyology | Database Coordinator of Natural Sciences
Administrator of ZooBank | Mother of Dragons
Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Stephen
> Thorpe via Taxacom
> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2024 4:58 PM
> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu; Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz>; Frank T. Krell
> <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
> 
>  Perhaps a more sensible approach would be for the ICZN to maintain a
> publicly accessible database of taxonomic treatments involving new names,
> something along the lines of Plazi Treatment Bank. Then a new name could
> be available from the databased treatment, independently of publication
> elsewhere. I know this idea has been considered, but it doesn't seem to be
> going anywhere, possibly because authors wouldn't get citation or impact
> credits from uploading such treatments, so they might not bother! "The
> system" is what is keeping all this messy.
> Stephen
>     On Saturday, 10 February 2024 at 04:00:15 pm NZDT, Frank T. Krell
> <frank.krell at dmns.org> wrote:
> 
>  Entirely incapable. Nice wording. Yes, we keep everything messy. Everything,
> the entire world, as messy as it has nobody seen before.
> 
> Hey, we talk about Word files. A Word file is as archival as a pencil-written
> notice or a species description on a magic board.
> Also, the long-term availability of electronic supplements are questionable.
> Publishers usually do not edit them, nor do they make sure that they remain
> readable over the decades. I dare to predict that electronic supplements will
> just fade away. That's what you want to happen to species descriptions?
> Then I rather prefer the ICZN to be entirely incapable to share your opinion
> 😊.
> Still one of them for a few months
> Frank
> 
> 
> Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
> 
> Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief Commissioner and Councillor,
> International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature Department of
> Zoology Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> 2001 Colorado Blvd
> Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
> Frank.krell at dmns.org
> Phone 303.370.8244
> Fax 303.331.6492
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmns.org%2Fscience%2Fzoology%2Fstaff%2Ffrank-krell%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce7a683954c8e4629138808dc2e7f32c2%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638436371055075158%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Foz6LSv9LJsWppRMuBXmmtQ8wc7dfmxzp0v5pkccCNg%3D&reserved=0
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> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Stephen
> Thorpe via Taxacom
> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 7:32 PM
> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu; Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
> 
>  There is no "debate". Nomenclature relegated to supplementary MSWord
> files is *not* code compliant in zoology. The only debate is whether or not
> the code needs to be adhered to so strictly, or whether these names can be
> used as perfectly good names for taxa, even if they fail code compliance on a
> technicality. My own view is that it is preferable to use a name that fails code
> compliance on a technicality rather than use no name at all. Probably also
> not worth renaming these taxa to gain code compliance, but, if they are
> renamed, the same epithet should be used for stability. However, the ICZN
> and the taxonomic community as a whole seems to be entirely incapable of
> achieving a sensible view on this, so it will no doubt remain messy for the
> foreseeable future.
> Stephen
>     On Saturday, 10 February 2024 at 11:46:49 am NZDT, Geoff Read via
> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> 
>  Posting from my private email.  Sorry about the extra fluff that results from
> using my workplace email.
> 
> Okay.
> 
> It is https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1111%2Fzsc.12651&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce7a683954c8e4629138808dc2e7f32c2%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638436371055075158%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=4f3cZ02uNYJVNqIHZsiz7SzyGaAoMLjg3Cs%2FllCXE%2Bs%3D&reserved=0
> 
> an article on Capitella bristleworms mainly molecularly distinguished, & open
> access.  However, the same treatment will have been done to all the 'early
> view' articles with new taxa
> 
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Ftoc%2F14636409%2F0%2F0&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce7a683954c8e4629138808dc2e7f32c2%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638436371055075158%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IHxJpdZ%2FulepF7IG2oGk%2BeTgMr7l%2F3432hgTkH2OA%2FY%3D&reserved=0
> 
> The 'disclaimer' is here:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Fpage%2Fjournal%2F14636409%2Fhomepage%2Fproductin&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce7a683954c8e4629138808dc2e7f32c2%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638436371055231422%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vNPtwFYYq0QQfj2B6aRzjBv2QcP0PyX1uTcJkNu0Ch0%3D&reserved=0
> formation.html
> 
> I would be very reluctant to treat the names as unavailable.  The 'work' is all
> the files, not just the pdf.
> 
> Geoff
> --
> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> gread at actrix.gen.nz
> 
> 
> 
> >---- Original Message ----
> >From: "Frank T. Krell via Taxacom" <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >To: "Geoff Read" <Geoffrey.Read at niwa.co.nz>, "taxacom at lists.ku.edu"
> ><taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >Sent: Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 11:25 AM
> >Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
> >
> >Could you provide the title/link to the paper. The availability of the names
> depends on what is included in the pdf/A, i.e.. in the immutable part of the
> paper. If components required for availability are only in the Word
> document, the names will not be available.
> >Putting taxonomy into electronic supplements gives a clear message that
> taxomony is second class science and not worth to be in the main journal.
> Zoological Scripta was always very "progressive" in terms of Code
> requirements, e.g., by admitting uninominal names for species, for example,
> following the then version of the Phylocode.
> >I guess taxonomy should not be published in Zoological Scripta. What a
> shame. Well, I would like to see the paper first before I draw conclusions.
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
> 
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to find, and
> not to yield. Tennyson, Ulysses.