Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta

Thu Feb 15 17:42:12 CST 2024

ZooBank need only archive the information that is directly relevant to nomenclatural availability.  While the rest of the content of most publications is extremely useful for taxonomy, it is explicitly outside the scope of Code-compliance and associated nomenclatural availability.  There is always the option of *increasing* the amount of taxonomic information necessary to confer nomenclatural availability under the Code, but that comes with non-trivial challenges of its own.

Aloha,
Rich

Richard L. Pyle, PhD
Director of Natural Sciences | Director of EXCORE
Senior Curator of Ichthyology | Database Coordinator of Natural Sciences
Administrator of ZooBank | Mother of Dragons
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Frank T. Krell
> via Taxacom
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2024 6:06 AM
> To: Thomas Pape <tpape at snm.ku.dk>; taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
> 
> Even if the availability is independent from publication, the information
> about the new taxon will still vanish at some point if published in electronic
> supplements. It would only make sense if ZooBank archived the original
> publication, wouldn't it?
> Frank
> 
> 
> Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
> 
> Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief Commissioner and Councillor,
> International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature Department of
> Zoology Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> 2001 Colorado Blvd
> Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
> Frank.krell at dmns.org
> Phone 303.370.8244
> Fax 303.331.6492
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmns.org%2Fscience%2Fzoology%2Fstaff%2Ffrank-krell%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caef90f9b52914df66abd08dc2e7fbeb9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638436373398161877%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nUaruvIMx5fnUFdas2og4qYNvcqVB6J2nxeIGxca%2Bn0%3D&reserved=0
> 
> Wild Color: Delve into the color spectrum in “Wild Color” to explore the
> brightest, boldest and most delightful colors of the rainbow – and take
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Thomas Pape
> via Taxacom
> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2024 9:19 AM
> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
> 
> Supplementary Materials associated with scientific publications issued
> electronically is a highly relevant issue, and I was surprised to read the
> disclaimer. Note that the journal has Author Guidelines including how to
> propose new nominal taxa, but this part of their guidelines has probably not
> been peer reviewed by a person well-versed in zoological nomenclature.
> 
> The ICZN is currently going through the Code, sentence by sentence, in order
> to provide an extensively updated proposal for a fifth edition, which will be
> disseminated widely for a one-year public review period. This cannot be
> done fast, but we make progress and will hopefully have something to
> present in a year's time from now.
> 
> The issue of Supplementary Materials will be discussed within the
> Commission in the near future, and I trust that we will come to a decision on
> (1) how to interpret Supplementary Materials under the current Code, and
> (2) what to propose for the next edition of the Code.
> 
> There are several issues involved under (1), including whether or not
> supplementary files are part of the 'work' (note that also traditional paper-
> based books can be "issued in parts").
> In the present case, the file providing the description, type fixation, and type
> depository is a Word file, which unambiguously is *not* acceptable for being
> considered as published in the sense of zoological nomenclature.
> 
> I should like to cite (once again), from the Introduction to our current Code
> from 1999, where W.D.L. Ride anticipated that “new information systems”
> would become a challenge to how we disseminate nomenclatural data and
> establish nomenclatural availability, and he suggested that “the solution will
> not lie in patching up a definition of publication but, rather, in scrapping it
> and finding a means of replacing ‘publication’ as a primary determinant of
> availability”.
> 
> Amazing foresight!
> 
> /Thomas
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Stephen
> Thorpe via Taxacom
> Sent: 10. februar 2024 05:58
> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu; Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz>; Frank T. Krell
> <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
> 
>  Perhaps a more sensible approach would be for the ICZN to maintain a
> publicly accessible database of taxonomic treatments involving new names,
> something along the lines of Plazi Treatment Bank. Then a new name could
> be available from the databased treatment, independently of publication
> elsewhere. I know this idea has been considered, but it doesn't seem to be
> going anywhere, possibly because authors wouldn't get citation or impact
> credits from uploading such treatments, so they might not bother! "The
> system" is what is keeping all this messy.
> Stephen
>     On Saturday, 10 February 2024 at 04:00:15 pm NZDT, Frank T. Krell
> <frank.krell at dmns.org> wrote:
> 
>  Entirely incapable. Nice wording. Yes, we keep everything messy. Everything,
> the entire world, as messy as it has nobody seen before.
> 
> Hey, we talk about Word files. A Word file is as archival as a pencil-written
> notice or a species description on a magic board.
> Also, the long-term availability of electronic supplements are questionable.
> Publishers usually do not edit them, nor do they make sure that they remain
> readable over the decades. I dare to predict that electronic supplements will
> just fade away. That's what you want to happen to species descriptions?
> Then I rather prefer the ICZN to be entirely incapable to share your opinion
> 😊.
> Still one of them for a few months
> Frank
> 
> 
> Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
> 
> Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief Commissioner and Councillor,
> International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature Department of
> Zoology Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> 2001 Colorado Blvd
> Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
> Frank.krell at dmns.org
> Phone 303.370.8244
> Fax 303.331.6492
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmns.org%2Fscience%2Fzoology%2Fstaff%2Ffrank-krell%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caef90f9b52914df66abd08dc2e7fbeb9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638436373398161877%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nUaruvIMx5fnUFdas2og4qYNvcqVB6J2nxeIGxca%2Bn0%3D&reserved=0
> 
> Wild Color: Delve into the color spectrum in “Wild Color” to explore the
> brightest, boldest and most delightful colors of the rainbow – and take
> amazing, eye-catching photos!
> 
> Color Salvaje: Sumérgete en el espectro cromático en "Color Salvaje" para
> explorar los colores más brillantes, atrevidos y fascinantes del arco iris... ¡y
> toma fotos asombrosas y llamativas!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Stephen
> Thorpe via Taxacom
> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 7:32 PM
> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu; Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
> 
>  There is no "debate". Nomenclature relegated to supplementary MSWord
> files is *not* code compliant in zoology. The only debate is whether or not
> the code needs to be adhered to so strictly, or whether these names can be
> used as perfectly good names for taxa, even if they fail code compliance on a
> technicality. My own view is that it is preferable to use a name that fails code
> compliance on a technicality rather than use no name at all. Probably also
> not worth renaming these taxa to gain code compliance, but, if they are
> renamed, the same epithet should be used for stability. However, the ICZN
> and the taxonomic community as a whole seems to be entirely incapable of
> achieving a sensible view on this, so it will no doubt remain messy for the
> foreseeable future.
> Stephen
>     On Saturday, 10 February 2024 at 11:46:49 am NZDT, Geoff Read via
> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> 
>  Posting from my private email.  Sorry about the extra fluff that results from
> using my workplace email.
> 
> Okay.
> 
> It is https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1111%2Fzsc.12651&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caef90f9b52914df66abd08dc2e7fbeb9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638436373398161877%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xqhfuaywQH%2Fz285HR%2BBkBMHXRwyVMY6lsNbfHC7KA7Q%3D&reserved=0
> 
> an article on Capitella bristleworms mainly molecularly distinguished, & open
> access.  However, the same treatment will have been done to all the 'early
> view' articles with new taxa
> 
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Ftoc%2F14636409%2F0%2F0&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caef90f9b52914df66abd08dc2e7fbeb9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638436373398161877%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KfjRPd7gYbqRneYWSWqd19Q2o%2FzNST7yFuqT6WgIINI%3D&reserved=0
> 
> The 'disclaimer' is here:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Fpage%2Fjournal%2F14636409%2Fhomepage%2Fproductin&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caef90f9b52914df66abd08dc2e7fbeb9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638436373398161877%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3Qs2lPK%2FpopBDv74AJb18OqUd3kCM41EvWWM1EJVQHU%3D&reserved=0
> formation.html
> 
> I would be very reluctant to treat the names as unavailable.  The 'work' is all
> the files, not just the pdf.
> 
> Geoff
> --
> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> gread at actrix.gen.nz
> 
> 
> 
> >---- Original Message ----
> >From: "Frank T. Krell via Taxacom" <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >To: "Geoff Read" <Geoffrey.Read at niwa.co.nz>, "taxacom at lists.ku.edu"
> ><taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >Sent: Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 11:25 AM
> >Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
> >
> >Could you provide the title/link to the paper. The availability of the names
> depends on what is included in the pdf/A, i.e.. in the immutable part of the
> paper. If components required for availability are only in the Word
> document, the names will not be available.
> >Putting taxonomy into electronic supplements gives a clear message that
> taxomony is second class science and not worth to be in the main journal.
> Zoological Scripta was always very "progressive" in terms of Code
> requirements, e.g., by admitting uninominal names for species, for example,
> following the then version of the Phylocode.
> >I guess taxonomy should not be published in Zoological Scripta. What a
> shame. Well, I would like to see the paper first before I draw conclusions.
> 
> 
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> 
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
> 
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to find, and
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> 
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
> 
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to find, and
> not to yield. Tennyson, Ulysses.
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click
> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
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> 
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
> 
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to find, and
> not to yield. Tennyson, Ulysses.
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
> 
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to find, and
> not to yield. Tennyson, Ulysses.
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click
> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
> content is safe.
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> 
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
> 
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to find, and
> not to yield. Tennyson, Ulysses.