Taxacom: Clarification RE e-publication (zoology) - new name has ZooBank LSID (or doesn't), publication does

Sun Mar 26 17:58:08 CDT 2023

Correct, but there are also permitted cases that do not fit this
definition...

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023, 9:56 am Thomas Pape via Taxacom, <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
wrote:

> >>> EITHER the new name, or the new work, display its assigned ZooBank
> identifier right there in the publication in order for the name to be
> available from that work/ date.
>
> Both will be fully acceptable as evident from the several Examples given
> after Art. 8.5.3:
> "Examples. Evidence of registration is given by stating information that
> would be known only if the registration has occurred, such as the exact
> date of registration or the registration number assigned to the work or to
> a new name or nomenclatural act introduced in the work".
>
> /Thomas
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Tony Rees via
> Taxacom
> Sent: 26. marts 2023 23:56
> To: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Clarification RE e-publication (zoology) - new name
> has ZooBank LSID (or doesn't), publication does
>
> Hi Rich, I "get" the logic you are describing, but still think it could
> have been implemented in a different way, e.g. requiring (in its most basic
> way) that EITHER the new name, or the new work, display its assigned
> ZooBank identifier right there in the publication in order for the name to
> be available from that work/ date. But others more adept than me have no
> doubt been down this path and decided that would be too onerous, for
> whatever reason :)
>
> Best - Tony
>
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2023, 6:39 am Richard Pyle, <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tony,
> >
> >
> >
> > The logic is actually rather simple (even if flawed in some ways):
> >
> >
> >
> > Before a work can be considered “published” in electronic form, that
> > publication must be registered in ZooBank (there are reasons for this,
> > which I can go into if you want).  This presents a problem: When I’m
> > reading an electronic work (PDF), how do I know whether it was
> > registered prior to publication?  The intention was that the work
> > itself would provide you the answer, but including evidence that
> > registration had taken place prior to publication.  Such evidence is
> > typically interpreted as including an LSID for the work itself, or the
> > exact date when a work was registered, or an LSID for a name within
> > the publication (which is impossible to obtain without first registering
> the work).
> >
> >
> >
> > Thus, coming back to my earlier email, the rules are actually pretty
> > simple:
> >
> > 1) The work must be registered in ZooBank prior to it being published;
> >
> > 2) Evidence of registration must be included within the work itself.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are a couple of other rules, including that the work itself must
> > contain a date of publication, and the ZooBank record must indicate an
> > ISSN and an intended online archive.  These are all pretty meaningless
> > rules because there is nothing that says that the date needs to be
> > correct, or that the ISSN needs to be correct, or that the work
> > actually be deposite din an online archive (only the intention of such
> > must be indicated in ZooBank).
> >
> >
> >
> > When the Amendment was written, I opposed the “evidence” requirement,
> > and advocated for the model that registration is necessary, but could
> > happen after publication.  Basically, my preferred approach is: “A
> > work is published [and names contained therein are available] when all
> > the criteria have been met.”  It shouldn’t matter what sequence the
> > requirements are fulfilled, and thus there shouldn’t be a need for
> > “evidence” that registration occurred before
> formatting/dissemination/etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > So I agree with you that some of the reasoning and logic is flawed,
> > and there are certainly some ambiguities for how to interpret the
> > rules.  But it’s reasonably straightforward, and has kinda/sorta
> > worked for the last ten years (at least, it’s worked better than I had
> expected it to).
> > However, we’ve learned a lot this past decade about how to improve it,
> > and those ideas will be incorporated into the draft Code-5, which will
> > be open to public review for at least a year.
> >
> >
> >
> > Aloha,
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> >
> > Richard L. Pyle, PhD
> > Senior Curator of Ichthyology | Director of XCoRE
> >
> > *Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum*
> >
> > 1525 Bernice Street, Honolulu, HI 96817-2704
> >
> > Office: (808) 848-4115;  Fax: (808) 847-8252
> >
> > eMail: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> >
> > BishopMuseum.org
> > <
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> >
> > *Our Mission: Bishop Museum inspires our community and visitors
> > through the exploration and celebration of the extraordinary history,
> > culture, and environment of Hawaiʻi and the Pacific.*
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
> > *Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2023 7:24 AM
> > *To:* Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> > *Cc:* Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>; taxacom <
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > *Subject:* Re: Taxacom: Clarification RE e-publication (zoology) - new
> > name has ZooBank LSID (or doesn't), publication does not
> >
> >
> >
> > The problem for me is that the e-publish requirements for
> > availability, to a new user, do not really appear logical at first
> > encounter. In other
> > words: to be available prior to print publication, the name needs to
> > be accompanied (in its e-published form) by its registered ZooBank LSID.
> > Except that it doesn't (that is in fact not a requirement). Also, the
> > work needs to be accompanied  (in its e-published form) by its
> > registered ZooBank LSID. Except that it doesn't (again, not a
> > requirement: this can be inferred, and the work may be invisible via
> > the ZooBank interface anyway, except to the person/s who entered it).
> > Hence the confusion, for me, and possibly others.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm sure there are good reasons for the above which were debated
> > exhaustively prior to deciding on the form of the system and the
> > wording to be incorporated in the Code, however that does not make the
> > result any more clear to the novice, or even semi experienced user. I
> > think if you were to ask ten taxonomists, or users of taxonomic data,
> > to explain their understanding of the requirements for e-publication
> > without (or even with) reference to the Code, you would find a
> > majority that could not explain it correctly. Or maybe I am in a
> minority of 1 here.
> >
> >
> >
> > If I am barking up the wrong tree here, please feel free to ignore
> > this comment!
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards - Tony
> >
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