Taxacom: Clarification RE e-publication (zoology) - new name has ZooBank LSID (or doesn't), publication does

Sun Mar 26 19:56:11 CDT 2023

If I understand Tony's point correctly, there is some ambiguity in the Code for what counts as evidence, and what does not.  The Examples help, but aren't necessarily exhaustive.

The problem I see with the "evidence" requirement in general is that it creates an opportunity for "limbo" names (i.e., names proposed as new that are in keeping with the principles of the Code, but fail on some technicality), but doesn't really help improve nomenclatural stability in any meaningful way.  People *still* need to consult ZooBank to confirm the legitimacy of the evidence, and names lacking such evidence may still be available if there was a paper-printed edition.

As Thomas alluded to, the Commission is well aware of this problems, and there are a number of ideas that could be implemented in Code-5 to solve them.

Aloha,
Rich

Richard L. Pyle, PhD
Senior Curator of Ichthyology | Director of XCoRE
Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum
1525 Bernice Street, Honolulu, HI 96817-2704
Office: (808) 848-4115;  Fax: (808) 847-8252
eMail: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
BishopMuseum.org
Our Mission: Bishop Museum inspires our community and visitors through the exploration and celebration of the extraordinary history, culture, and environment of Hawaiʻi and the Pacific.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Tony Rees via
> Taxacom
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2023 12:58 PM
> To: Thomas Pape <tpape at snm.ku.dk>
> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Clarification RE e-publication (zoology) - new name has
> ZooBank LSID (or doesn't), publication does
> 
> Correct, but there are also permitted cases that do not fit this definition...
> 
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2023, 9:56 am Thomas Pape via Taxacom,
> <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> > >>> EITHER the new name, or the new work, display its assigned ZooBank
> > identifier right there in the publication in order for the name to be
> > available from that work/ date.
> >
> > Both will be fully acceptable as evident from the several Examples
> > given after Art. 8.5.3:
> > "Examples. Evidence of registration is given by stating information
> > that would be known only if the registration has occurred, such as the
> > exact date of registration or the registration number assigned to the
> > work or to a new name or nomenclatural act introduced in the work".
> >
> > /Thomas
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Tony Rees
> > via Taxacom
> > Sent: 26. marts 2023 23:56
> > To: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> > Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Taxacom: Clarification RE e-publication (zoology) - new
> > name has ZooBank LSID (or doesn't), publication does
> >
> > Hi Rich, I "get" the logic you are describing, but still think it
> > could have been implemented in a different way, e.g. requiring (in its
> > most basic
> > way) that EITHER the new name, or the new work, display its assigned
> > ZooBank identifier right there in the publication in order for the
> > name to be available from that work/ date. But others more adept than
> > me have no doubt been down this path and decided that would be too
> > onerous, for whatever reason :)
> >
> > Best - Tony
> >
> > On Mon, 27 Mar 2023, 6:39 am Richard Pyle,
> <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Tony,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The logic is actually rather simple (even if flawed in some ways):
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Before a work can be considered “published” in electronic form, that
> > > publication must be registered in ZooBank (there are reasons for
> > > this, which I can go into if you want).  This presents a problem:
> > > When I’m reading an electronic work (PDF), how do I know whether it
> > > was registered prior to publication?  The intention was that the
> > > work itself would provide you the answer, but including evidence
> > > that registration had taken place prior to publication.  Such
> > > evidence is typically interpreted as including an LSID for the work
> > > itself, or the exact date when a work was registered, or an LSID for
> > > a name within the publication (which is impossible to obtain without
> > > first registering
> > the work).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thus, coming back to my earlier email, the rules are actually pretty
> > > simple:
> > >
> > > 1) The work must be registered in ZooBank prior to it being
> > > published;
> > >
> > > 2) Evidence of registration must be included within the work itself.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are a couple of other rules, including that the work itself
> > > must contain a date of publication, and the ZooBank record must
> > > indicate an ISSN and an intended online archive.  These are all
> > > pretty meaningless rules because there is nothing that says that the
> > > date needs to be correct, or that the ISSN needs to be correct, or
> > > that the work actually be deposite din an online archive (only the
> > > intention of such must be indicated in ZooBank).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > When the Amendment was written, I opposed the “evidence”
> > > requirement, and advocated for the model that registration is
> > > necessary, but could happen after publication.  Basically, my
> > > preferred approach is: “A work is published [and names contained
> > > therein are available] when all the criteria have been met.”  It
> > > shouldn’t matter what sequence the requirements are fulfilled, and
> > > thus there shouldn’t be a need for “evidence” that registration
> > > occurred before
> > formatting/dissemination/etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So I agree with you that some of the reasoning and logic is flawed,
> > > and there are certainly some ambiguities for how to interpret the
> > > rules.  But it’s reasonably straightforward, and has kinda/sorta
> > > worked for the last ten years (at least, it’s worked better than I
> > > had
> > expected it to).
> > > However, we’ve learned a lot this past decade about how to improve
> > > it, and those ideas will be incorporated into the draft Code-5,
> > > which will be open to public review for at least a year.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Aloha,
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard L. Pyle, PhD
> > > Senior Curator of Ichthyology | Director of XCoRE
> > >
> > > *Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum*
> > >
> > > 1525 Bernice Street, Honolulu, HI 96817-2704
> > >
> > > Office: (808) 848-4115;  Fax: (808) 847-8252
> > >
> > > eMail: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> > >
> > > BishopMuseum.org
> > > <
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhbs%2
> >
> F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C8d91f00384bf45fdeb7608d
> b2e4d
> >
> 9948%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638154683047
> 179775%7
> >
> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
> iI6Ik1
> >
> haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ue6%2BVkXXrIJa58Jg8
> welTGQ4uI
> > P%2FbT427VkC%2FNPKeMc%3D&reserved=0
> > .
> > >
> bishopmuseum.org%2Fstaff%2Fpylerichard.html&data=05%7C01%7Ctpape%4
> 0s
> > > nm
> > >
> .ku.dk%7C7a522598e9d749d7be4808db2e44fcea%7Ca3927f91cda14696af89
> 8c9f
> > > 1c
> > >
> effa91%7C0%7C0%7C638154646065566376%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
> 8eyJWIjoi
> > > MC
> > >
> 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
> 7C%7
> > > C%
> > >
> 7C&sdata=Lnz%2B%2Fm3VoOxuDYMtgk4LvmVHDDoOHcRQH1Se1pH4i%2Fk%
> 3D&reserv
> > > ed
> > > =0>
> > >
> > > *Our Mission: Bishop Museum inspires our community and visitors
> > > through the exploration and celebration of the extraordinary
> > > history, culture, and environment of Hawaiʻi and the Pacific.*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
> > > *Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2023 7:24 AM
> > > *To:* Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> > > *Cc:* Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>; taxacom <
> > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > > *Subject:* Re: Taxacom: Clarification RE e-publication (zoology) -
> > > new name has ZooBank LSID (or doesn't), publication does not
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The problem for me is that the e-publish requirements for
> > > availability, to a new user, do not really appear logical at first
> > > encounter. In other
> > > words: to be available prior to print publication, the name needs to
> > > be accompanied (in its e-published form) by its registered ZooBank LSID.
> > > Except that it doesn't (that is in fact not a requirement). Also,
> > > the work needs to be accompanied  (in its e-published form) by its
> > > registered ZooBank LSID. Except that it doesn't (again, not a
> > > requirement: this can be inferred, and the work may be invisible via
> > > the ZooBank interface anyway, except to the person/s who entered it).
> > > Hence the confusion, for me, and possibly others.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm sure there are good reasons for the above which were debated
> > > exhaustively prior to deciding on the form of the system and the
> > > wording to be incorporated in the Code, however that does not make
> > > the result any more clear to the novice, or even semi experienced
> > > user. I think if you were to ask ten taxonomists, or users of
> > > taxonomic data, to explain their understanding of the requirements
> > > for e-publication without (or even with) reference to the Code, you
> > > would find a majority that could not explain it correctly. Or maybe
> > > I am in a
> > minority of 1 here.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If I am barking up the wrong tree here, please feel free to ignore
> > > this comment!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards - Tony
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu For
> > list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df8f96619db4440e37d08db2e5e1184%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638154753801021399%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dzoMvzefJwppPSMdugg6gduIijcSpOClA5fcsH50OsQ%3D&reserved=0
> >
> s.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%
> 7C
> >
> 8d91f00384bf45fdeb7608db2e4d9948%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3
> c1a%7C
> >
> 0%7C0%7C638154683047179775%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
> MC4wLjAwMDA
> >
> iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&s
> data=
> > TzAg8Nu3qu8u0AdVyKDkiYABYrjbsOgjXJLrDD%2FO82k%3D&reserved=0
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be
> searched at:
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxa%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df8f96619db4440e37d08db2e5e1184%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638154753801021399%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XmjoPjo9oKLyU4qcntUeFL3YeqirvV9GQHwLKuLNay4%3D&reserved=0
> >
> com.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C8d91f0
> 0384
> >
> bf45fdeb7608db2e4d9948%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7
> C0%7C63
> >
> 8154683047179775%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
> AiLCJQIjoiV
> >
> 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AhX
> 97ZmjHg
> > wEGhJrZiAhjF9cmLbLTPqySb8xKEDk47c%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> > for about 36 years, 1987-2023
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu For
> > list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be
> searched at:
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxa%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df8f96619db4440e37d08db2e5e1184%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638154753801021399%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XmjoPjo9oKLyU4qcntUeFL3YeqirvV9GQHwLKuLNay4%3D&reserved=0
> >
> com.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C8d91f0
> 0384
> >
> bf45fdeb7608db2e4d9948%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7
> C0%7C63
> >
> 8154683047336028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
> AiLCJQIjoiV
> >
> 2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hC7
> fXtG5Dz
> > 3TJRmZ%2BmQvMJAiYk8T%2BUOJDymzD0M8n9I%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> > for about 36 years, 1987-2023
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> 
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu For list
> information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu The
> Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df8f96619db4440e37d08db2e5e1184%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638154753801021399%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wB0o3G%2BTuc%2BAM3lmJ3NJYFSpZzvDLKzHp4cLDATsh9c%3D&reserved=0
> 
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for about
> 36 years, 1987-2023