Taxacom: Minimalist revision of Mesochorus Gravenhorst, 1829

Wed Aug 30 07:09:15 CDT 2023

I am glad that the logical fallacies in that paper are already being
pointed out. Thank you, Marco. You will definitely find more.

On Wed, Aug 30, 2023 at 2:02 PM Marco Uliana <marco.uliana.1 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear all, I have been reading this group for a long time, but I think this
> is my first message.
> Greetings to everyone.
>
> The new Sharkey paper is available from here
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frevistas.ucr.ac.cr%2Findex.php%2Frbt%2Fissue%2Fview%2F3352&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cd44896391c8145b2887908dba951f44c%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289941687969200%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=J4Kb3N3PJMd3DexsVUiJpS33gPdsM5GNS2It20iVloM%3D&reserved=0
>
> A decent proxy for their working method could perhaps be:
> *As it was really hard for us to cope with the 245 species of neotropical
> Nesochorus already described/treated by Dasch (1974), we decided it would
> have been easier for us to go our own way and start again from zero*.
> In the same way I suppose that, shall one find some problems with these
> COI-based diagnosis (e.g.: ambiguous, mismatching morphology, out of reach,
> obsolete against genomic based diagnosis, just too boring...), he can as
> well ignore Sharkey et al. 2023, and restart taxonomy and nomenclature once
> more.
>
> Also, I think that arguments like this are difficult to comment on:
> *Many of the characters in Dasch’s key use jargon that only a few
> entomologists know. *
> *For example, few of the general population understand the terms
> postpetiole and frons (Fig. 3). *
> *The key is almost impossible for professional taxonomists, and it is in
> an alien language for the vast majority of potential users.*
>
> I'm not sure if this is the right way to proceed...
>
> Marco Uliana
> Museo di Storia Naturale di Venezia, Italy
> ᐧ
> ᐧ
>
> Il giorno mer 30 ago 2023 alle ore 11:38 Roderic Page via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> ha scritto:
>
>> Hi Carlos,
>>
>> I’m reminded of Charles Godfrey’s wonderful essay "Taxonomy as
>> Information Science” https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbiostor.org%2Freference%2F250587&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cd44896391c8145b2887908dba951f44c%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289941687969200%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fPizWAvCE1QUjmli%2FIBJjhgw9%2By7EO0DOatHBaqiWVw%3D&reserved=0 where he
>> writes (p. 174):
>> A depressing amount of entomological taxonomy, especially in Europe,
>> consists of long and lengthy discussions of this type of taxonomic
>> book-keeping (to avoid this, some of the best taxonomists I know work only
>> in the tropics where they can be biologists rather than archivists).
>> I think the paper "Minimalist revision of Mesochorus Gravenhorst...”
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frevistas.ucr.ac.cr%2Findex.php%2Frbt%2Farticle%2Fview%2F56316&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cd44896391c8145b2887908dba951f44c%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289941687969200%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3k22Uhru7jEuTybHnuIn9taAwWtKVY9XNuFPI0kQkqA%3D&reserved=0 (the DOI
>> doesn’t seem to be registered yet) makes a reasoned case for “ignoring"
>> earlier work.
>>
>> By my reading the authors are simply saying that creating 2-3 synonyms
>> for 10 existing names is a small price to pay for being able to document
>> the other species in the large genus in a biologically rich region.
>>
>> It is a long time since I’ve done actual taxonomy, but I’m sure many
>> researchers are faced with names they can’t place, descriptions that are
>> nearly useless, specimens that are missing (or type series that comprise
>> multiple taxa). At some point we make a judgement call about whether we
>> invest time in resolving this, or put them to one side in the hope that
>> perhaps we can resolve it later (do we want to be biologists or
>> archivists?).
>>
>> The authors point out that sequencing the Dasch types (if feasible) would
>> be one way to discover whether there are synonyms.
>>
>> Your statement that “all is set to completely overwrite the current
>> morphological system and names” seems hyperbolic at best. We are in an
>> interesting time where new technologies present new opportunities (and
>> challenges), and we are figuring out how best to proceed (as we do every
>> time new technologies come along and force us to rethink things).
>>
>> Personally I’m going to re-read Charles’ essay, and ponder how this
>> debate (and others in our field) address his assessment (p. 172) that:
>> What matters is not only how interesting the question is, the potential
>> extra science that the research may leverage, but how capable the subject
>> is of delivering useful output. I think taxonomy is suffering not because
>> it is any less interesting or important than it was fifty years, but
>> because it is largely failing to deliver.
>> Regards,
>>
>> Rod
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Roderic Page
>> Professor of Taxonomy
>> School of Biodiversity, One Health, & Veterinary Medicine
>> College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
>> Graham Kerr Building
>> University of Glasgow
>> Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>>
>> Email: Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
>> LinkedIn: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fuk.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Frdmpage&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cd44896391c8145b2887908dba951f44c%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289941687969200%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rjnkGDxPF5tvGDYE%2BFWpUtRbQ8OT6in4gNCxSyUIUw4%3D&reserved=0
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>> Citations: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.co.uk%2Fcitations%3Fhl%3Den%26user%3D4Z5WABAAAAAJ&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cd44896391c8145b2887908dba951f44c%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289941687969200%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dS102izUfNv5In3Rbil%2FKB3iGvVmiQ%2FupLyzcNXy3DA%3D&reserved=0
>> ResearchGate https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FRoderic_Page&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cd44896391c8145b2887908dba951f44c%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289941687969200%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jAfvc2ERYbM91a3581SYscnTEfTjx3F5aTuYd1AW4KI%3D&reserved=0
>> On 30 Aug 2023 at 09:11 +0100, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu>, wrote:
>> Dear Taxacomers,
>> For your enjoyment, here is the latest episode of the Meierotto *et al.*
>> (2019) saga, published six days ago, on August 24, 2023:
>> Sharkey *et al*. (2023): Minimalist revision of *Mesochorus* Gravenhorst,
>> 1829 (Hymenoptera: Ichneumonidae: Mesochorinae) from Área de Conservación
>> Guanacaste, Costa Rica, with 158 new species and host records for 129
>> species. *Revista de Biología Tropical*, 71 (S2): 1-174.
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.15517%2Frev.biol.trop..v71iS2.2023&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cd44896391c8145b2887908dba951f44c%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289941687969200%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=o%2F3FFuWnJL5NK07%2FR4qM45kxNZ%2BYQlLf9JAMdJZJIxo%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> You will enjoy reading through the logical fallacies in the introduction.
>> But more importantly, this paper contains what I told you and warned you
>> would happen, since the Meierotto *et al.* (2019) paper, if you failed to
>> act swiftly and properly. Now it is here. Read:
>> "Dasch (1974) treated a very small proportion of ACG *Mesochorus* species,
>> therefore few synonyms will be generated in our current effort which does
>> not attempt to match his names with Costa Rican specimens."
>> There you have a primarily morphological system finally openly hijacked by
>> a parallel taxonomic system which wants to use the naming rules of the
>> current system for convenience.
>> "In other words, it is likely that we are generating two or three synonyms
>> (0.23 x 10) of these Dasch species."
>> So, a complete disregard for priority and open acceptance of synonym
>> creation, as I warned four years ago. When things like this can go through
>> and get published, even when they threaten universality and stability,
>> then
>> you realize that we don't need a ZooCode anymore. Given that the authors,
>> reviewers, and editor accepted 23% synonym creation as good, then all is
>> set to completely overwrite the current morphological system and names, as
>> the 2 million species described versus 10 million species estimate is just
>> 20%. If we estimate a total of 80 or 100 million species, then creating 2
>> million synonyms for the existing names goes down to a "negligible" 2%
>> synonymy threshold. Completely acceptable, isn't it?
>>
>> To the commissioners who have tolerated this, because of their conflict of
>> values (not of interest) based on the incorrect assumption that species
>> need scientific names to be assessed and protected: anyone that has read
>> through the IUCN Red List methodology knows that this is not true, and
>> there are countries with legislation in place to protect species even if
>> they don't have scientific names. You better update yourselves.
>>
>> By the way, at least one of the species has two original spellings,
>> *Mesochorus
>> dotres* (which should be declared an incorrect original spelling) and
>> *Mesochorus
>> dostres* (the supposedly correct spelling).
>>
>> Now I will just sit here and contemplate the devastation.
>>
>> Am I forgetting to emphasise something? Ah, yes: "I told you".
>>
>> Yours in horror,
>> Carlos Martínez
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
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>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>>
>