Taxacom: Minimalist revision of Mesochorus Gravenhorst, 1829

Wed Aug 30 07:01:54 CDT 2023

Dear all, I have been reading this group for a long time, but I think this
is my first message.
Greetings to everyone.

The new Sharkey paper is available from here
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frevistas.ucr.ac.cr%2Findex.php%2Frbt%2Fissue%2Fview%2F3352&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cf966552c0e414928ab1c08dba950ef9e%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289937462785374%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AZ6hrT3hOEkNUaO8nXvlVPMeFqTXFARUC%2BGO92iLM3o%3D&reserved=0

A decent proxy for their working method could perhaps be:
*As it was really hard for us to cope with the 245 species of neotropical
Nesochorus already described/treated by Dasch (1974), we decided it would
have been easier for us to go our own way and start again from zero*.
In the same way I suppose that, shall one find some problems with these
COI-based diagnosis (e.g.: ambiguous, mismatching morphology, out of reach,
obsolete against genomic based diagnosis, just too boring...), he can as
well ignore Sharkey et al. 2023, and restart taxonomy and nomenclature once
more.

Also, I think that arguments like this are difficult to comment on:
*Many of the characters in Dasch’s key use jargon that only a few
entomologists know. *
*For example, few of the general population understand the terms
postpetiole and frons (Fig. 3). *
*The key is almost impossible for professional taxonomists, and it is in an
alien language for the vast majority of potential users.*

I'm not sure if this is the right way to proceed...

Marco Uliana
Museo di Storia Naturale di Venezia, Italy
ᐧ
ᐧ

Il giorno mer 30 ago 2023 alle ore 11:38 Roderic Page via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> ha scritto:

> Hi Carlos,
>
> I’m reminded of Charles Godfrey’s wonderful essay "Taxonomy as Information
> Science” https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbiostor.org%2Freference%2F250587&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cf966552c0e414928ab1c08dba950ef9e%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289937462785374%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9H7R5HFol7w34wI9gPJ61xfLw2qXzNKWtyvfJ3zJYOk%3D&reserved=0 where he writes (p. 174):
> A depressing amount of entomological taxonomy, especially in Europe,
> consists of long and lengthy discussions of this type of taxonomic
> book-keeping (to avoid this, some of the best taxonomists I know work only
> in the tropics where they can be biologists rather than archivists).
> I think the paper "Minimalist revision of Mesochorus Gravenhorst...”
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frevistas.ucr.ac.cr%2Findex.php%2Frbt%2Farticle%2Fview%2F56316&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cf966552c0e414928ab1c08dba950ef9e%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289937462785374%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZIm%2B%2BwiVft4i7wohGK1NF0C5Mut9UH8k7xx8RJEMgfk%3D&reserved=0 (the DOI
> doesn’t seem to be registered yet) makes a reasoned case for “ignoring"
> earlier work.
>
> By my reading the authors are simply saying that creating 2-3 synonyms for
> 10 existing names is a small price to pay for being able to document the
> other species in the large genus in a biologically rich region.
>
> It is a long time since I’ve done actual taxonomy, but I’m sure many
> researchers are faced with names they can’t place, descriptions that are
> nearly useless, specimens that are missing (or type series that comprise
> multiple taxa). At some point we make a judgement call about whether we
> invest time in resolving this, or put them to one side in the hope that
> perhaps we can resolve it later (do we want to be biologists or
> archivists?).
>
> The authors point out that sequencing the Dasch types (if feasible) would
> be one way to discover whether there are synonyms.
>
> Your statement that “all is set to completely overwrite the current
> morphological system and names” seems hyperbolic at best. We are in an
> interesting time where new technologies present new opportunities (and
> challenges), and we are figuring out how best to proceed (as we do every
> time new technologies come along and force us to rethink things).
>
> Personally I’m going to re-read Charles’ essay, and ponder how this debate
> (and others in our field) address his assessment (p. 172) that:
> What matters is not only how interesting the question is, the potential
> extra science that the research may leverage, but how capable the subject
> is of delivering useful output. I think taxonomy is suffering not because
> it is any less interesting or important than it was fifty years, but
> because it is largely failing to deliver.
> Regards,
>
> Rod
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Roderic Page
> Professor of Taxonomy
> School of Biodiversity, One Health, & Veterinary Medicine
> College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
> Graham Kerr Building
> University of Glasgow
> Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>
> Email: Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
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> On 30 Aug 2023 at 09:11 +0100, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu>, wrote:
> Dear Taxacomers,
> For your enjoyment, here is the latest episode of the Meierotto *et al.*
> (2019) saga, published six days ago, on August 24, 2023:
> Sharkey *et al*. (2023): Minimalist revision of *Mesochorus* Gravenhorst,
> 1829 (Hymenoptera: Ichneumonidae: Mesochorinae) from Área de Conservación
> Guanacaste, Costa Rica, with 158 new species and host records for 129
> species. *Revista de Biología Tropical*, 71 (S2): 1-174.
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.15517%2Frev.biol.trop..v71iS2.2023&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cf966552c0e414928ab1c08dba950ef9e%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638289937462785374%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sal6loEovNITiZz%2Bby50KOf7QnfiSLCxNFGPelb6%2FME%3D&reserved=0
>
> You will enjoy reading through the logical fallacies in the introduction.
> But more importantly, this paper contains what I told you and warned you
> would happen, since the Meierotto *et al.* (2019) paper, if you failed to
> act swiftly and properly. Now it is here. Read:
> "Dasch (1974) treated a very small proportion of ACG *Mesochorus* species,
> therefore few synonyms will be generated in our current effort which does
> not attempt to match his names with Costa Rican specimens."
> There you have a primarily morphological system finally openly hijacked by
> a parallel taxonomic system which wants to use the naming rules of the
> current system for convenience.
> "In other words, it is likely that we are generating two or three synonyms
> (0.23 x 10) of these Dasch species."
> So, a complete disregard for priority and open acceptance of synonym
> creation, as I warned four years ago. When things like this can go through
> and get published, even when they threaten universality and stability, then
> you realize that we don't need a ZooCode anymore. Given that the authors,
> reviewers, and editor accepted 23% synonym creation as good, then all is
> set to completely overwrite the current morphological system and names, as
> the 2 million species described versus 10 million species estimate is just
> 20%. If we estimate a total of 80 or 100 million species, then creating 2
> million synonyms for the existing names goes down to a "negligible" 2%
> synonymy threshold. Completely acceptable, isn't it?
>
> To the commissioners who have tolerated this, because of their conflict of
> values (not of interest) based on the incorrect assumption that species
> need scientific names to be assessed and protected: anyone that has read
> through the IUCN Red List methodology knows that this is not true, and
> there are countries with legislation in place to protect species even if
> they don't have scientific names. You better update yourselves.
>
> By the way, at least one of the species has two original spellings,
> *Mesochorus
> dotres* (which should be declared an incorrect original spelling) and
> *Mesochorus
> dostres* (the supposedly correct spelling).
>
> Now I will just sit here and contemplate the devastation.
>
> Am I forgetting to emphasise something? Ah, yes: "I told you".
>
> Yours in horror,
> Carlos Martínez
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