Taxacom: Galapagos

Tue Jul 2 18:14:36 CDT 2024

So you think all alternatives should be cited? Possibly also discussed? So creationism, intelligent design, Wicken magic, should all be cited and take up space in our paper?
And before you say that yours is more serious than theirs, I would point out that they will dispute that with the exactly the same argument. It is clear the authors are aware of the paper you are pushing, but don’t consider it worthy of citation. It’s not that they’re ignoring it. It’s not that they’re ignorant of it. They don’t think it’s worthy.

Your point of view seems examined, measured, and found wanting. Do we have to keep hearing about it?

__________________________________________________
Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box 173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA

UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA

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(406) 994-6029<tel:(406)%20994-6029> (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu

________________________________
From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2024 2:47 PM
To: Ivie, Michael <mivie at montana.edu>
Cc: taxacom at lists.ku.edu <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: Taxacom: Galapagos

**External Sender**

Sorry- have raised this theme so often that I can forget that it's not necessarily obvious. Just further showing the problematic nature of science in the systematics-evolution world where the suppression of alternatives is problematic for the state of a science - whether it is a science any longer or something else. The Galapagos is an excellent indicator (just as there are 'indicator species' for the health of biodiversity, I guess there can be 'indicator localities') for the health of scientific research since it is such a central focus for evolutionary theorists (Darwin being there and all that). And with the Grant & Grant paper one is dealing with one of the iconic taxa in evolutionary theory. So it gets interesting in the way alternatives appear not to exist. Some on this list may be interested, others not. So this is for those interested in the philosophy and history of systematics/taxonomy and evolutionary biology, and apologies to others.

Cheers, John

On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 4:28 PM Michael A. Ivie via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at lists.ku.edu>> wrote:
What is your point with these emails to this list?

On 7/2/2024 2:20 PM, John Grehan via Taxacom wrote:
> **External Sender**
>
> Ah! Just seen that I had already sent this out a while back, but forgot
> that. Well, at least this is an update.
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 4:19 PM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com<mailto:calabar.john at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Below, June communication with R & P Grant re Galapagos finches. No
>> response (not surprisingly due to previous lack of response). This is a
>> world where alternatives do not exist.
>>
>> John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com<mailto:calabar.john at gmail.com>>
>> prgrant at princeton.edu<mailto:prgrant at princeton.edu> rgrant at princeton.edu<mailto:rgrant at princeton.edu>
>>
>> Thu, Jun 6, 12:33 PM
>> to rgrant, prgrant
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> I noticed in your ms "From Microcosm to Macrocosm: Adaptive Radiation of
>> Darwin’s Finches"  the following assertion: "At least 18 species evolved
>> from a common ancestor (Fig. 1) in the relatively short time of one to two
>> million years (Barker et al., 2015; Lamichhaney et al., 2015):"
>>
>> While I acknowledge that this is your preferred evolutionary model, as you
>> know, there is alternative biogeographic evidence published in support of a
>> much older origin for these and other biota of the Galapagos - as you would
>> know from the copy of Heads & Grehan (2021) sent to you as a courtesy. But
>> while you may believe in a particular model, you present it as a statement
>> of fact rather than a preference. This is misleading as it gives the
>> impression that no scientific alternative exists. Surely, in the interests
>> of science and open exploration, the readership needs to know the context
>> of your belief. I would suggest as an open and honest declaration, that
>> your statement be modified to:  "At least 18 species evolved from a common
>> ancestor (Fig. 1) that we believe occured in a relatively short time of one
>> to two million years (Barker et al., 2015; Lamichhaney et al., 2015),
>> although older origins have been proposed from biogeographic evidence
>> (Heads & Grehan 2021):" Surely that is not too much to ask?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> John Grehan
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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__________________________________________________

Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box 173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA

UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA

(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu<mailto:mivie at montana.edu>

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Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.

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