Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta

Sat Feb 10 12:38:57 CST 2024

To me one of the issues with supp info is that although the actual paper is
fixed (at least eventually) there is not a general requirement for the
supplementary data to be so. It can be updated on many journals as
required, even if it's a pdf/A by replacing it. Hence to me any requirement
for availability of a name must be in the actual paper to me. I do not mind
if supporting data is in the supplementary files but the actual
nomenclatural and taxonomic acts must be in the paper.

Cheers Scott

On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 3:05 PM Frank T. Krell via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:

> Even if the availability is independent from publication, the information
> about the new taxon will still vanish at some point if published in
> electronic supplements. It would only make sense if ZooBank archived the
> original publication, wouldn't it?
> Frank
>
>
> Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
>
> Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief
> Commissioner and Councillor, International Commission on Zoological
> Nomenclature
> Department of Zoology
> Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> 2001 Colorado Blvd
> Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
> Frank.krell at dmns.org
> Phone 303.370.8244
> Fax 303.331.6492
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmns.org%2Fscience%2Fzoology%2Fstaff%2Ffrank-krell%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ca815f52477aa4d023fbc08dc2a67920b%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638431871538528664%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YhJ2wqvGl%2B6YIKLf0i6We10yLKpf2ofzqkwUP%2BFEIlk%3D&reserved=0
>
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>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Thomas Pape via
> Taxacom
> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2024 9:19 AM
> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
>
> Supplementary Materials associated with scientific publications issued
> electronically is a highly relevant issue, and I was surprised to read the
> disclaimer. Note that the journal has Author Guidelines including how to
> propose new nominal taxa, but this part of their guidelines has probably
> not been peer reviewed by a person well-versed in zoological nomenclature.
>
> The ICZN is currently going through the Code, sentence by sentence, in
> order to provide an extensively updated proposal for a fifth edition, which
> will be disseminated widely for a one-year public review period. This
> cannot be done fast, but we make progress and will hopefully have something
> to present in a year's time from now.
>
> The issue of Supplementary Materials will be discussed within the
> Commission in the near future, and I trust that we will come to a decision
> on (1) how to interpret Supplementary Materials under the current Code, and
> (2) what to propose for the next edition of the Code.
>
> There are several issues involved under (1), including whether or not
> supplementary files are part of the 'work' (note that also traditional
> paper-based books can be "issued in parts").
> In the present case, the file providing the description, type fixation,
> and type depository is a Word file, which unambiguously is *not* acceptable
> for being considered as published in the sense of zoological nomenclature.
>
> I should like to cite (once again), from the Introduction to our current
> Code from 1999, where W.D.L. Ride anticipated that “new information
> systems” would become a challenge to how we disseminate nomenclatural data
> and establish nomenclatural availability, and he suggested that “the
> solution will not lie in patching up a definition of publication but,
> rather, in scrapping it and finding a means of replacing ‘publication’ as a
> primary determinant of availability”.
>
> Amazing foresight!
>
> /Thomas
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Stephen Thorpe
> via Taxacom
> Sent: 10. februar 2024 05:58
> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu; Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz>; Frank T.
> Krell <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
>
>  Perhaps a more sensible approach would be for the ICZN to maintain a
> publicly accessible database of taxonomic treatments involving new names,
> something along the lines of Plazi Treatment Bank. Then a new name could be
> available from the databased treatment, independently of publication
> elsewhere. I know this idea has been considered, but it doesn't seem to be
> going anywhere, possibly because authors wouldn't get citation or impact
> credits from uploading such treatments, so they might not bother! "The
> system" is what is keeping all this messy.
> Stephen
>     On Saturday, 10 February 2024 at 04:00:15 pm NZDT, Frank T. Krell <
> frank.krell at dmns.org> wrote:
>
>  Entirely incapable. Nice wording. Yes, we keep everything messy.
> Everything, the entire world, as messy as it has nobody seen before.
>
> Hey, we talk about Word files. A Word file is as archival as a
> pencil-written notice or a species description on a magic board.
> Also, the long-term availability of electronic supplements are
> questionable. Publishers usually do not edit them, nor do they make sure
> that they remain readable over the decades. I dare to predict that
> electronic supplements will just fade away. That's what you want to happen
> to species descriptions?
> Then I rather prefer the ICZN to be entirely incapable to share your
> opinion 😊.
> Still one of them for a few months
> Frank
>
>
> Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
>
> Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief Commissioner and Councillor,
> International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature Department of Zoology
> Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> 2001 Colorado Blvd
> Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
> Frank.krell at dmns.org
> Phone 303.370.8244
> Fax 303.331.6492
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmns.org%2Fscience%2Fzoology%2Fstaff%2Ffrank-krell%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ca815f52477aa4d023fbc08dc2a67920b%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638431871538528664%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YhJ2wqvGl%2B6YIKLf0i6We10yLKpf2ofzqkwUP%2BFEIlk%3D&reserved=0
>
> Wild Color: Delve into the color spectrum in “Wild Color” to explore the
> brightest, boldest and most delightful colors of the rainbow – and take
> amazing, eye-catching photos!
>
> Color Salvaje: Sumérgete en el espectro cromático en "Color Salvaje" para
> explorar los colores más brillantes, atrevidos y fascinantes del arco
> iris... ¡y toma fotos asombrosas y llamativas!
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Stephen Thorpe
> via Taxacom
> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 7:32 PM
> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu; Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
>
>  There is no "debate". Nomenclature relegated to supplementary MSWord
> files is *not* code compliant in zoology. The only debate is whether or not
> the code needs to be adhered to so strictly, or whether these names can be
> used as perfectly good names for taxa, even if they fail code compliance on
> a technicality. My own view is that it is preferable to use a name that
> fails code compliance on a technicality rather than use no name at all.
> Probably also not worth renaming these taxa to gain code compliance, but,
> if they are renamed, the same epithet should be used for stability.
> However, the ICZN and the taxonomic community as a whole seems to be
> entirely incapable of achieving a sensible view on this, so it will no
> doubt remain messy for the foreseeable future.
> Stephen
>     On Saturday, 10 February 2024 at 11:46:49 am NZDT, Geoff Read via
> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>  Posting from my private email.  Sorry about the extra fluff that results
> from using my workplace email.
>
> Okay.
>
> It is https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1111%2Fzsc.12651&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ca815f52477aa4d023fbc08dc2a67920b%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638431871538528664%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RgFFNhN4OergXo%2BhPxH%2BYcDGgsICqipjCHyjvfXNMAA%3D&reserved=0
>
> an article on Capitella bristleworms mainly molecularly distinguished, &
> open access.  However, the same treatment will have been done to all the
> 'early view' articles with new taxa
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Ftoc%2F14636409%2F0%2F0&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ca815f52477aa4d023fbc08dc2a67920b%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638431871538528664%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=MA2CJd8WNMqxpcLzUk8SdfGq8wyoFQ8b%2FfQ2TIx8wxs%3D&reserved=0
>
> The 'disclaimer' is here:
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Fpage%2Fjournal%2F14636409%2Fhomepage%2Fproductinformation.html&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ca815f52477aa4d023fbc08dc2a67920b%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638431871538528664%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fXUnSt6m5kRLjSEBEkx18XdvqT%2BzLl%2FXTFUfexmdWEI%3D&reserved=0
>
> I would be very reluctant to treat the names as unavailable.  The 'work'
> is all the files, not just the pdf.
>
> Geoff
> --
> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> gread at actrix.gen.nz
>
>
>
> >---- Original Message ----
> >From: "Frank T. Krell via Taxacom" <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >To: "Geoff Read" <Geoffrey.Read at niwa.co.nz>, "taxacom at lists.ku.edu"
> ><taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >Sent: Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 11:25 AM
> >Subject: Re: Taxacom: The practice of Zoologica Scripta
> >
> >Could you provide the title/link to the paper. The availability of the
> names depends on what is included in the pdf/A, i.e.. in the immutable part
> of the paper. If components required for availability are only in the Word
> document, the names will not be available.
> >Putting taxonomy into electronic supplements gives a clear message that
> taxomony is second class science and not worth to be in the main journal.
> Zoological Scripta was always very "progressive" in terms of Code
> requirements, e.g., by admitting uninominal names for species, for example,
> following the then version of the Phylocode.
> >I guess taxonomy should not be published in Zoological Scripta. What a
> shame. Well, I would like to see the paper first before I draw conclusions.
>
>
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
>
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to
> find, and not to yield. Tennyson, Ulysses.
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
>
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to
> find, and not to yield. Tennyson, Ulysses.
> _______________________________________________
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
>
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to
> find, and not to yield. Tennyson, Ulysses.
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 37 years, 1987-2024.
>
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, To strive, to seek, to
> find, and not to yield. Tennyson, Ulysses.
>

-- 
Scott Thomson

Centro de Estudos dos Quelônios da Amazônia - CEQUA
Petrópolis, Manaus
State of Amazonas, 69055-010
Brasil

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