Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re: Removals ofoffending scientific names)

Mon Jun 26 05:50:57 CDT 2023

I guess in the past I have said we maybe should do away with gender
agreement. However, I wanted to make some points on it. My reasoning is
purely from a practical point of view.

Q. Is it possible to write scripts or queries that will automate this?

A. Yes it is, the gender associations follow clear rules that do require
information but it can be done.

Q. Is all the information needed for these scripts to work available in all
names?

A. No it is not, many names are published without a decent etymology to
explain the derivation and gender of the new name as such the necessary
information needed for a script (which works better) or a query to make an
automated determination is not there. As such these will make mistakes,
which are time consuming and annoying.

Q. So why am I against it?

A. Because in the modern world it is redundant and time wasting. All
languages and human interactions are becoming more and more automated using
computers. All languages have already evolved to meet this need. People
already shorthand everything they write for the purposes of speeding up the
text process, and simplify it. This makes it both quicker and less likely
to make mistakes. This is done in multiple languages already. Taxonomy
would be catching up to the modern world, speeding up our information
retrieval and transfer. It's a natural evolution that maintaining gender
agreement is fighting against.

Q. Should all names be put back to original spelling from first usage?

A. Tempting but no, I view rule changes like this as a line in the sand
approach. As I have said elsewhere. Reverting many names is not conducive
to stability and we should always look at the stable situation. Many names
have been in current usage for decades, or longer, better to do a cutoff if
and when this is applied and move on from there. This would have less
impact on stability.

Ok tried to answer a few simple questions on the issue. In the end the
maintenance of this is a desire to keep a romantic notion of language, it
is therefore a purely human construct only. People are only part of the
equation these days, databases and the transfer and storage of information
via computers is also a large part. We want to work with cutting edge tech?
Then you have to let go of some of the redundant additions. Taxonomy is an
aging field, it's not doing the field any favors by hanging on to this
issue as the young do not care that much about it as they grew up talking
on computers and phones. It's just not part of the real world any more and
is entirely impractical for the sake of romanticism.

Cheers Scott

Em seg., 26 de jun. de 2023 às 07:18, Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> escreveu:

>  An alternative solution would be to abandon the idea that any particular
> gender form of a name is the correct one. All gender variants of a name are
> the same name in effect, just with different gender forms. Hence, one could
> just use any gender variant of a name and anyone searching for the taxon
> would just have to search for the different variants (masculine, feminine
> and neuter), but would not need to know which of them is correct. We sort
> of already have to do that anyway for names with uncertain or disputed
> gender. We also have to do that with different combinations of the same
> name.
> Stephen
>     On Monday, 26 June 2023 at 10:07:43 pm NZST, George Beccaloni via
> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>  Yes, exactly. Someone should compile a list of the many issues that gender
> agreement causes. It seems to me to be a 'no-brainer' to simply use the
> original published version of the species-group name. This would have many
> advantages and be simple to implement. Let's go with the times and be
> gender-neutral. Many important organisations are moving towards that - so
> why not the ICZN> For example see
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.europarl.europa.eu%2Fcmsdata%2F151780%2FGNL_Guidelines_EN.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C646c8dacfbca43d7736a08db76326531%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638233733544364929%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zx2qLKSP9JlKF0s5u5UMBCfijkRu8S3VA1ebdMhGFfE%3D&reserved=0
>
> George
>
> ****************************************************************************
> *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
> *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
>
> Wallace Correspondence Project: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallaceletters.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C646c8dacfbca43d7736a08db76326531%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638233733544364929%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p79WulzUQPczEuRR8GUwvnD4YI6gFwrERdG5yi6ua3w%3D&reserved=0
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> ResearchGate: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FGeorge-Beccaloni-2&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C646c8dacfbca43d7736a08db76326531%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638233733544364929%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UwIqn50bk08Um617rcgoT0Lgx91wtf68C1WWKMYzKRE%3D&reserved=0
>
> ****************************************************************************
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 10:54, Geoff Read via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > As a database editor I can have great difficulty in ascertaining the
> > gender of a genus, because it isn't stated, and the derivation of the
> name
> > is obscure and unresolvable.
> > Sometimes the view of the gender assignment oscillates between masculine
> > and feminine with successive authors over the decades. Who is right?
> > The other unnecessary problem is that authors don't think it necessary to
> > explain themselves when they suddenly change the gender endings within a
> > genus. It's beneath them to help out in that way.
> > So, lacking the explanation, we try to find the evidence for ourselves.
> > This is a terrific waste of my time.
> >
> > All this can be avoided and could have been avoided if authors in the
> past
> > and right now put in the minimum effort to explain their genus & species
> > names in full. And editors & reviewers insist they do so.
> > I'll bet many today cannot explain how they formulated the spelling of
> > their new names, and don't know what they should be doing, and just
> imitate
> > what they see.  They should get advice.
> >
> > Geoff
> > --
> > Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> > Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> > gread at actrix.gen.nz
> >
> >
> >
> > >---- Original Message ----
> > >From: lynn via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> > >To: "George Beccaloni" <g.beccaloni at gmail.com>
> > >Cc: "Taxacom Mailinglist" <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> > >Sent: Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 8:03 PM
> > >Subject: Re: Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re: Removals
> > ofoffending scientific names)
> > >
> > >English does have gender agreement - he, she and it; his, hers and its.
> > >
> > >What bothers me is if taxonomists find it so difficult to work with such
> > a simple requirement as gender agreement, how can we trust their
> taxonomic
> > work which should be far more complex?
> > >
> > >It seems that some of the problems (like Abba) are caused because the
> > Code does not insist that all genus and species level names should be
> > Latinised.
> > >
> > >Lynn
> > >
> > >> On 26 Jun 2023, at 00.14, George Beccaloni via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Given that English doesn't have gender agreement, I find it confusing
> > too.
> > >> Given that English is now the language of science and many taxonomists
> > >> whose first language isn't English, are 'forced' to publish in
> English,
> > it
> > >> seems ridiculous that they also have to understand gender agreement
> just
> > >> for the purposes of nomenclature. They have to first go to the trouble
> > of
> > >> writing in English, and then have another hurdle to jump - one which
> > serves
> > >> no practical purpose whatsoever! Gender agreement of scientific names
> > is a
> > >> antiquated, useless and burdensome!
> > >>
> > >> George
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> ****************************************************************************
> > >> *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
> > >> *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
> > >>
> > >> Wallace Correspondence Project:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallaceletters.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C646c8dacfbca43d7736a08db76326531%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638233733544364929%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p79WulzUQPczEuRR8GUwvnD4YI6gFwrERdG5yi6ua3w%3D&reserved=0
> > >> Wallace Memorial Fund: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallacefund.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C646c8dacfbca43d7736a08db76326531%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638233733544364929%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dHAmOs%2Fm3a2ynKPQLRc2LCoxfWc7wXwwDcg%2Bq4PUpds%3D&reserved=0
> > >> ResearchGate: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FGeorge-Beccaloni-2&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C646c8dacfbca43d7736a08db76326531%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638233733544364929%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UwIqn50bk08Um617rcgoT0Lgx91wtf68C1WWKMYzKRE%3D&reserved=0
> > >>
> >
> ****************************************************************************
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 22:25, Dochterland via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Dear Stephen,
> > >>>
> > >>> It depends on the level you want to achieve in a language. If you
> want
> > to
> > >>> read Horace prima vista then Latin is complex and confusing indeed.
> > But to
> > >>> attribute the correct gender to an adjective in a scientific name is
> > very
> > >>> basic and simple indeed.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jan
> >
> >
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> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> > about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>

-- 
Scott Thomson

Centro de Estudos dos Quelônios da Amazônia - CEQUA
Petrópolis, Manaus
State of Amazonas, 69055-010
Brasil

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