Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re: Removals ofoffending scientific names)

Mon Jun 26 05:17:57 CDT 2023

 An alternative solution would be to abandon the idea that any particular gender form of a name is the correct one. All gender variants of a name are the same name in effect, just with different gender forms. Hence, one could just use any gender variant of a name and anyone searching for the taxon would just have to search for the different variants (masculine, feminine and neuter), but would not need to know which of them is correct. We sort of already have to do that anyway for names with uncertain or disputed gender. We also have to do that with different combinations of the same name.
Stephen
    On Monday, 26 June 2023 at 10:07:43 pm NZST, George Beccaloni via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:  

 Yes, exactly. Someone should compile a list of the many issues that gender
agreement causes. It seems to me to be a 'no-brainer' to simply use the
original published version of the species-group name. This would have many
advantages and be simple to implement. Let's go with the times and be
gender-neutral. Many important organisations are moving towards that - so
why not the ICZN> For example see
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.europarl.europa.eu%2Fcmsdata%2F151780%2FGNL_Guidelines_EN.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C038933e81416421ea57108db762e9dcc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638233714841895959%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HjknlvdTCt5lrwXAGD9iKnFuUhqFOCgzhyd9Gq0Trvw%3D&reserved=0

George
****************************************************************************
*Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
*Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*

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****************************************************************************

On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 10:54, Geoff Read via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
wrote:

>
> As a database editor I can have great difficulty in ascertaining the
> gender of a genus, because it isn't stated, and the derivation of the name
> is obscure and unresolvable.
> Sometimes the view of the gender assignment oscillates between masculine
> and feminine with successive authors over the decades. Who is right?
> The other unnecessary problem is that authors don't think it necessary to
> explain themselves when they suddenly change the gender endings within a
> genus. It's beneath them to help out in that way.
> So, lacking the explanation, we try to find the evidence for ourselves.
> This is a terrific waste of my time.
>
> All this can be avoided and could have been avoided if authors in the past
> and right now put in the minimum effort to explain their genus & species
> names in full. And editors & reviewers insist they do so.
> I'll bet many today cannot explain how they formulated the spelling of
> their new names, and don't know what they should be doing, and just imitate
> what they see.  They should get advice.
>
> Geoff
> --
> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> gread at actrix.gen.nz
>
>
>
> >---- Original Message ----
> >From: lynn via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >To: "George Beccaloni" <g.beccaloni at gmail.com>
> >Cc: "Taxacom Mailinglist" <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >Sent: Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 8:03 PM
> >Subject: Re: Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re: Removals
> ofoffending scientific names)
> >
> >English does have gender agreement - he, she and it; his, hers and its.
> >
> >What bothers me is if taxonomists find it so difficult to work with such
> a simple requirement as gender agreement, how can we trust their taxonomic
> work which should be far more complex?
> >
> >It seems that some of the problems (like Abba) are caused because the
> Code does not insist that all genus and species level names should be
> Latinised.
> >
> >Lynn
> >
> >> On 26 Jun 2023, at 00.14, George Beccaloni via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Given that English doesn't have gender agreement, I find it confusing
> too.
> >> Given that English is now the language of science and many taxonomists
> >> whose first language isn't English, are 'forced' to publish in English,
> it
> >> seems ridiculous that they also have to understand gender agreement just
> >> for the purposes of nomenclature. They have to first go to the trouble
> of
> >> writing in English, and then have another hurdle to jump - one which
> serves
> >> no practical purpose whatsoever! Gender agreement of scientific names
> is a
> >> antiquated, useless and burdensome!
> >>
> >> George
> >>
> >>
> ****************************************************************************
> >> *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
> >> *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
> >>
> >> Wallace Correspondence Project: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallaceletters.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C038933e81416421ea57108db762e9dcc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638233714841895959%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8tgCoPj5HvEbwEj%2BcaG78uz2V13PhkBncVQQeB0mcmg%3D&reserved=0
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> >> ResearchGate: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FGeorge-Beccaloni-2&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C038933e81416421ea57108db762e9dcc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638233714841895959%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fITZU8tpciaYcJSW4bZAIiRfqKrV5ku7GdefDkPPy9g%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> ****************************************************************************
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 22:25, Dochterland via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear Stephen,
> >>>
> >>> It depends on the level you want to achieve in a language. If you want
> to
> >>> read Horace prima vista then Latin is complex and confusing indeed.
> But to
> >>> attribute the correct gender to an adjective in a scientific name is
> very
> >>> basic and simple indeed.
> >>>
> >>> Jan
>
>
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