Taxacom: Removals of offending scientific names

Fri Jun 23 18:52:48 CDT 2023

Mike,

OK, please provide some papers by historians who have carefully
investigated the usage of the word in the UK in Victorian times, rather
than simply stating what you think might be the case. I looked long and
hard to find anyone who had actually investigated this and eventually found
one, but whether I can find it again is another matter. It is clear from
the context of the usage of the term byWallace at least, that he was not
using it in a racist way. He was extremely liberal and non-racist. In fact
he frequently wrote how other races were superior in many ways to the
British...

George
****************************************************************************
*Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
*Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*

Wallace Correspondence Project: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallaceletters.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C441375a3ce8749506adb08db744502cb%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231611994183755%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PnzAg%2FqzSQV0qL711LUhkuNlq%2B1v6FONJo%2Bf0TBAg3Y%3D&reserved=0
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****************************************************************************

On Sat, 24 Jun 2023 at 00:42, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:

> George,
>
> That is a very self-serving version of history.  Many, many white
> Americans claimed the same thing you claim for British usage.  You are,
> however, giving the view of white users for the UK example, but black
> hearers for the US example.  I am going to bet that the inflection used
> with the word anywhere it was used varied with intent.  We in the US have
> gotten farther in understanding that difference in viewpoint.
>
> Mike
> On 6/23/2023 4:58 PM, George Beccaloni wrote:
>
> ***External Sender***
> Hi Stephen,
>
> A while ago I did some research into use of the N-word in Victorian times,
> because people were criticizing Darwin and Wallace for (very occasionally)
> using it. I discovered that in the UK it simply meant a black person and
> was not meant to be offensive, but in the USA it became a highly derogatory
> term for a black person.
>
> George
>
> ****************************************************************************
> *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
> *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
>
> Wallace Correspondence Project: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallaceletters.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C441375a3ce8749506adb08db744502cb%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231611994183755%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PnzAg%2FqzSQV0qL711LUhkuNlq%2B1v6FONJo%2Bf0TBAg3Y%3D&reserved=0
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>
> ****************************************************************************
>
>
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 at 23:22, Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>>  There are interesting complications with Mike's example of the N-word.
>> For one thing, people use it all the time without raising an eyebrow,
>> providing that they are black people talking about each other, in a non
>> derogatory way. It would seem, however, that a white person, by virtue of
>> their skin colour,is not allowed to use the term, regardless of their
>> intentions. So certain terms can only be used by certain groups in society,
>> without being considered offensive. The other thing is that grammatical
>> variants of the N-word are commonplace in taxonomy (and elsewhere). The
>> epithets niger and nigra just mean black. Presumably the country of Nigeria
>> is named for the skin colour of its indigenous people. There is a hilarious
>> clip on YouTube where a young white American guy reacts to an episode of
>> the 1970s British comedy Fawlty Towers. Out of the blue, in the middle of
>> the episode, the characters start talking about ni66ers. The young guy
>> reacting doesn't say anything, but the uncomfortable and somewhat panicked
>> look on his face is priceless!
>> Anyway, my point , once again, is that offensiveness is subjective and
>> relative to geography and race, whereas taxonomy is (more or less)
>> objective and global in scope. Hence, I doubt very much whether it is
>> possible to sanitize taxonomy from everything that anybody might find
>> offensive.
>> Stephen    On Friday, 23 June 2023 at 04:42:46 am NZST, Michael A. Ivie
>> via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>  Let us remember that offensive names, images and words can have value as
>> warnings and instructive historical lessons.  How many would have missed
>> an important lesson if the statute of Ozymandias had been removed?
>> Doesn't the name Anophtalmus hitleri Scheibel 1937 remind us of the
>> popularity of the horrible man in the German speaking world at one
>> time?  Doesn't that give us the lesson to think about who we support
>> today?  Doesn't the original text of Huckleberry Finn or To Kill a
>> Mockingbird give insight into the world experienced by our ancestors,
>> both oppressed and oppressor? Isn't it instructive to understand that
>> your ancestors behaved in a despicable way?  Is there harm or value in
>> that realization?  I am all for the descendants of Nazis and
>> slaveholders being embarrassed about it.  That embarrassment hopefully
>> will inspire them to be better people than their ancestors.
>>
>> And does it not give humanity, dignity and respect to those who endured
>> under such disrespect and cruelty to acknowledge how deeply embedded it
>> was in even everyday speech?  Doesn't it bring pride in understanding
>> what they went through and still maintained their humanity and endured?
>> Horror, revulsion and sorrow are appropriate responses, and should be
>> embraced as such.  To avoid that is to diminish the sacrifice and
>> suffering of those who were victims.
>>
>> There is a line after which these things can't continue -- no new
>> statues of Hitler, and the old statues of Jefferson Davis go to museums,
>> not the public square.  Use of the N-word should be immediately shamed
>> and called out today anytime it is not in an historical context that is
>> used to educate.  But, their existence is important.
>>
>> At what point do we stop if we start down the path.  The Lampyridae
>> genus Chegueveria was named by a Russian entomologist. Che was a hero to
>> many and a demon to many others.  Is this name OK or not?  Does it bring
>> pain to the ancestors to those he murdered?  Probably, but also joy to
>> those he liberated.  Which one wins?  It is just a name, a moniker, the
>> taxon does not take on characteristics of others with the same name.
>> Even worse, the name was applied to a species from Puerto Rico, where
>> Che never went and was not involved.  So, it is historically ignorant as
>> well.  Can we ban names for being stupid?
>>
>> Eventually we will get to names that some just consider rude or
>> inappropriate in polite company.  Clitoria Linneaus or Orchis Linneaus
>> come to mind.  Do they have to go?
>>
>> And, what about specimen labels?  Many, many labels on specimens have
>> place names that would not be used today, but they are historic
>> documents and must be quoted verbatim.  This is uncomfortable, and we
>> should be glad for the reflective moment that uncomfortableness brings.
>> It shows growth and allows for reflection.
>>
>> Before I get the "old white man has no standing" I counter with being
>> raised in a visible religious minority that was subject to derogatory
>> names, derision, lies and slander, as well as discrimination.  I had to
>> see my mother called derogatory names because of her dress and beliefs.
>> While I "passed" and left that community, it is still painful to hear
>> statements by people who do not know my background.  And, as a disabled
>> person, I know, hear and endure slurs and microaggressions in my daily
>> life.  But, sticks and stones....
>>
>> Each and every historic name that offends is a teaching moment when it
>> is used.  This is not totally a bad thing.  It allows examination of our
>> history, warts and all.  Sugar coating and covering up that horrible
>> things happened by making references go away is not compatible with
>> facing them and making sure they never return.  Nor does their use
>> equate with glorifying evil.  The people who do that are beyond our reach.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On 6/22/2023 8:49 AM, Frank T. Krell via Taxacom wrote:
>> > **External Sender**
>> >
>> > Nerdy, elitist gender agreement? Me thinking follow grammar being not
>> so badly. But that's just me 😊, coming from a language well organized by
>> grammar.
>> > If you don't want gender agreement, create specific names as nouns in
>> apposition, like abba, beccaloni, boris. And you are right, names are just
>> labels.
>> > I have recently seen a manuscript, hopefully soon to be published, that
>> finds that naming after celebrities helps much with the visibility of
>> taxonomy. This is important in these times where only things get recognized
>> and supported that people are talking about.
>> > Names are always a reflection of the time in which they were created.
>> Eradicating history is counterproductive. We need to be reminded of these
>> villains of the past, as often as possible.
>> > Frank
>> >
>> >
>> > Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
>> >
>> > Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief
>> > Commissioner and Councillor, International Commission on Zoological
>> Nomenclature
>> > Department of Zoology
>> > Denver Museum of Nature & Science
>> > 2001 Colorado Blvd
>> > Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
>> > Frank.krell at dmns.org
>> > Phone 303.370.8244
>> > Fax 303.331.6492
>> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmns.org%2Fscience%2Fzoology%2Fstaff%2Ffrank-krell%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C441375a3ce8749506adb08db744502cb%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231611994339995%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=d3qE2qprgdgo7LEFOWvoOcHdvq2ugKNUalgTV1Pz%2Fj4%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> > Bugs: They’re bigger, they’re better, they’re buggier than ever! It’s
>> all about precision flight, swarm intelligence and mind control in the
>> world of “Bugs," the exhibition. Marvel at their adaptive genius and see if
>> you can match their brilliance.
>> >
>> >
>> > Bugs: Son más grandes, mejores y más increíbles que nunca. En la
>> exhibición "Bugs" todo gira en torno al vuelo de precisión, la inteligencia
>> en grupo y el control mental. ¡Descubre lo genios que son!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of George
>> Beccaloni via Taxacom
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 5:11 AM
>> > To: Michael Heads <m.j.heads at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> > Subject: Re: Taxacom: Removals of offending scientific names
>> >
>> > Names are just labels - there is no need to understand them. IMHO they
>> > should be unchanging, and the nerdy, elitist requirements of the Code
>> > relating to gender agreement should be scrapped as they make tracking
>> names
>> > difficult in our modern computerised world.
>> >
>> > George
>> >
>> ****************************************************************************
>> > *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
>> > *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
>> >
>> > Wallace Correspondence Project: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallaceletters.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C441375a3ce8749506adb08db744502cb%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231611994339995%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=4NKQfra0BZeYV6R6UroDLlNzTVIeIBdsSBH7J3Bwfos%3D&reserved=0
>> > Wallace Memorial Fund: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallacefund.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C441375a3ce8749506adb08db744502cb%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231611994339995%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7OnoZC8xr8jvM8DZY9kSEk%2BSQNTljdMdR3qraCAGKVc%3D&reserved=0
>> > ResearchGate: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FGeorge-Beccaloni-2&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C441375a3ce8749506adb08db744502cb%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231611994339995%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=67wMKhheif0HoAsOy5%2BhJd1djRbN%2Fs5XLjM3LUXmgqI%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> ****************************************************************************
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 at 11:58, Michael Heads via Taxacom <
>> > taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Abba is a good name for a genus - short, memorable...  I'm grateful
>> that
>> >> the 19th century taxonomists who named most of the genera in many
>> groups
>> >> *didn't* use the names of contemporary pop groups, pet politicians and
>> >> other cultural ephemera. If they had, the names would now be
>> >> meaningless, and we instead we can write with future users in mind. But
>> >> preferences like this should not be law!
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Taxacom Mailing List
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
>> for
>> >> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
>> for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>> >
>> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
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>> >
>> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
>> for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>>
>> --
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>>
>> NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>>
>> US Post Office Address:
>> Montana Entomology Collection
>> Marsh Labs, Room 50
>> PO Box 173145
>> Montana State University
>> Bozeman, MT 59717
>> USA
>>
>> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
>> Montana Entomology Collection
>> Marsh Labs, Room 50
>> 1911 West Lincoln Street
>> Montana State University
>> Bozeman, MT 59718
>> USA
>>
>>
>> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
>> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
>> mivie at montana.edu
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
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>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
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>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C441375a3ce8749506adb08db744502cb%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231611994339995%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mW7HjSuR03GhBthTdS3vcemHNxjyj8EjdqkVEMwJYP8%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>>
> --
> __________________________________________________
>
> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
> NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>
> US Post Office Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> PO Box 173145
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> USA
>
> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59718
> USA
>
>
> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)mivie at montana.edu
>
>