Taxacom: Removals of offending scientific names

Michael A. Ivie mivie at montana.edu
Fri Jun 23 18:42:02 CDT 2023 

George,

That is a very self-serving version of history.  Many, many white 
Americans claimed the same thing you claim for British usage.  You are, 
however, giving the view of white users for the UK example, but black 
hearers for the US example.  I am going to bet that the inflection used 
with the word anywhere it was used varied with intent.  We in the US 
have gotten farther in understanding that difference in viewpoint.

Mike

On 6/23/2023 4:58 PM, George Beccaloni wrote:
>
> ***External Sender***
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> A while ago I did some research into use of the N-word in Victorian 
> times, because people were criticizing Darwin and Wallace for (very 
> occasionally) using it. I discovered that in the UK it simply meant a 
> black person and was not meant to be offensive, but in the USA it 
> became a highly derogatory term for a black person.
>
> George
> ****************************************************************************
> *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
> *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
>
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> ****************************************************************************
>
>
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 at 23:22, Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom 
> <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>      There are interesting complications with Mike's example of the
>     N-word. For one thing, people use it all the time without raising
>     an eyebrow, providing that they are black people talking about
>     each other, in a non derogatory way. It would seem, however, that
>     a white person, by virtue of their skin colour,is not allowed to
>     use the term, regardless of their intentions. So certain terms can
>     only be used by certain groups in society, without being
>     considered offensive. The other thing is that grammatical variants
>     of the N-word are commonplace in taxonomy (and elsewhere). The
>     epithets niger and nigra just mean black. Presumably the country
>     of Nigeria is named for the skin colour of its indigenous people.
>     There is a hilarious clip on YouTube where a young white American
>     guy reacts to an episode of the 1970s British comedy Fawlty
>     Towers. Out of the blue, in the middle of the episode, the
>     characters start talking about ni66ers. The young guy reacting
>     doesn't say anything, but the uncomfortable and somewhat panicked
>     look on his face is priceless!
>     Anyway, my point , once again, is that offensiveness is subjective
>     and relative to geography and race, whereas taxonomy is (more or
>     less) objective and global in scope. Hence, I doubt very much
>     whether it is possible to sanitize taxonomy from everything that
>     anybody might find offensive.
>     Stephen    On Friday, 23 June 2023 at 04:42:46 am NZST, Michael A.
>     Ivie via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>      Let us remember that offensive names, images and words can have
>     value as
>     warnings and instructive historical lessons.  How many would have
>     missed
>     an important lesson if the statute of Ozymandias had been removed?
>     Doesn't the name Anophtalmus hitleri Scheibel 1937 remind us of the
>     popularity of the horrible man in the German speaking world at one
>     time?  Doesn't that give us the lesson to think about who we support
>     today?  Doesn't the original text of Huckleberry Finn or To Kill a
>     Mockingbird give insight into the world experienced by our ancestors,
>     both oppressed and oppressor? Isn't it instructive to understand that
>     your ancestors behaved in a despicable way?  Is there harm or
>     value in
>     that realization?  I am all for the descendants of Nazis and
>     slaveholders being embarrassed about it.  That embarrassment
>     hopefully
>     will inspire them to be better people than their ancestors.
>
>     And does it not give humanity, dignity and respect to those who
>     endured
>     under such disrespect and cruelty to acknowledge how deeply
>     embedded it
>     was in even everyday speech?  Doesn't it bring pride in understanding
>     what they went through and still maintained their humanity and
>     endured?
>     Horror, revulsion and sorrow are appropriate responses, and should be
>     embraced as such.  To avoid that is to diminish the sacrifice and
>     suffering of those who were victims.
>
>     There is a line after which these things can't continue -- no new
>     statues of Hitler, and the old statues of Jefferson Davis go to
>     museums,
>     not the public square.  Use of the N-word should be immediately
>     shamed
>     and called out today anytime it is not in an historical context
>     that is
>     used to educate.  But, their existence is important.
>
>     At what point do we stop if we start down the path.  The Lampyridae
>     genus Chegueveria was named by a Russian entomologist. Che was a
>     hero to
>     many and a demon to many others.  Is this name OK or not? Does it
>     bring
>     pain to the ancestors to those he murdered?  Probably, but also
>     joy to
>     those he liberated.  Which one wins?  It is just a name, a
>     moniker, the
>     taxon does not take on characteristics of others with the same name.
>     Even worse, the name was applied to a species from Puerto Rico, where
>     Che never went and was not involved.  So, it is historically
>     ignorant as
>     well.  Can we ban names for being stupid?
>
>     Eventually we will get to names that some just consider rude or
>     inappropriate in polite company.  Clitoria Linneaus or Orchis
>     Linneaus
>     come to mind.  Do they have to go?
>
>     And, what about specimen labels?  Many, many labels on specimens have
>     place names that would not be used today, but they are historic
>     documents and must be quoted verbatim.  This is uncomfortable, and we
>     should be glad for the reflective moment that uncomfortableness
>     brings.
>     It shows growth and allows for reflection.
>
>     Before I get the "old white man has no standing" I counter with being
>     raised in a visible religious minority that was subject to derogatory
>     names, derision, lies and slander, as well as discrimination.  I
>     had to
>     see my mother called derogatory names because of her dress and
>     beliefs.
>     While I "passed" and left that community, it is still painful to hear
>     statements by people who do not know my background.  And, as a
>     disabled
>     person, I know, hear and endure slurs and microaggressions in my
>     daily
>     life.  But, sticks and stones....
>
>     Each and every historic name that offends is a teaching moment
>     when it
>     is used.  This is not totally a bad thing.  It allows examination
>     of our
>     history, warts and all.  Sugar coating and covering up that horrible
>     things happened by making references go away is not compatible with
>     facing them and making sure they never return.  Nor does their use
>     equate with glorifying evil.  The people who do that are beyond
>     our reach.
>
>     Mike
>
>     On 6/22/2023 8:49 AM, Frank T. Krell via Taxacom wrote:
>     > **External Sender**
>     >
>     > Nerdy, elitist gender agreement? Me thinking follow grammar
>     being not so badly. But that's just me 😊, coming from a language
>     well organized by grammar.
>     > If you don't want gender agreement, create specific names as
>     nouns in apposition, like abba, beccaloni, boris. And you are
>     right, names are just labels.
>     > I have recently seen a manuscript, hopefully soon to be
>     published, that finds that naming after celebrities helps much
>     with the visibility of taxonomy. This is important in these times
>     where only things get recognized and supported that people are
>     talking about.
>     > Names are always a reflection of the time in which they were
>     created. Eradicating history is counterproductive. We need to be
>     reminded of these villains of the past, as often as possible.
>     > Frank
>     >
>     >
>     > Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
>     >
>     > Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief
>     > Commissioner and Councillor, International Commission on
>     Zoological Nomenclature
>     > Department of Zoology
>     > Denver Museum of Nature & Science
>     > 2001 Colorado Blvd
>     > Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
>     > Frank.krell at dmns.org
>     > Phone 303.370.8244
>     > Fax 303.331.6492
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>     >
>     > Bugs: They’re bigger, they’re better, they’re buggier than ever!
>     It’s all about precision flight, swarm intelligence and mind
>     control in the world of “Bugs," the exhibition. Marvel at their
>     adaptive genius and see if you can match their brilliance.
>     >
>     >
>     > Bugs: Son más grandes, mejores y más increíbles que nunca. En la
>     exhibición "Bugs" todo gira en torno al vuelo de precisión, la
>     inteligencia en grupo y el control mental. ¡Descubre lo genios que
>     son!
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of George
>     Beccaloni via Taxacom
>     > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 5:11 AM
>     > To: Michael Heads <m.j.heads at gmail.com>
>     > Cc: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>     > Subject: Re: Taxacom: Removals of offending scientific names
>     >
>     > Names are just labels - there is no need to understand them.
>     IMHO they
>     > should be unchanging, and the nerdy, elitist requirements of the
>     Code
>     > relating to gender agreement should be scrapped as they make
>     tracking names
>     > difficult in our modern computerised world.
>     >
>     > George
>     >
>     ****************************************************************************
>     > *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
>     > *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
>     >
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>     >
>     ****************************************************************************
>     >
>     >
>     > On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 at 11:58, Michael Heads via Taxacom <
>     > taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>     >
>     >> Abba is a good name for a genus - short, memorable...  I'm
>     grateful that
>     >> the 19th century taxonomists who named most of the genera in
>     many groups
>     >> *didn't* use the names of contemporary pop groups, pet
>     politicians and
>     >> other cultural ephemera. If they had, the names would now be
>     >> meaningless, and we instead we can write with future users in
>     mind. But
>     >> preferences like this should not be law!
>     >> _______________________________________________
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>     >>
>     >> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
>     alliteration for
>     >> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>     >>
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>     <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
>     > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>     taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>     > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>     https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C372ee5b8a2fc4bd1b00308db744374fd%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231605301643794%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zji%2F3yis9V0wm%2FNcd6%2FrgMywTv9v6JBB09f78UcOCz8%3D&reserved=0
>     <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C372ee5b8a2fc4bd1b00308db744374fd%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231605301643794%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zji%2F3yis9V0wm%2FNcd6%2FrgMywTv9v6JBB09f78UcOCz8%3D&reserved=0>
>     >
>     > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
>     alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
>     -- 
>     __________________________________________________
>
>     Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
>     NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>
>     US Post Office Address:
>     Montana Entomology Collection
>     Marsh Labs, Room 50
>     PO Box 173145
>     Montana State University
>     Bozeman, MT 59717
>     USA
>
>     UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
>     Montana Entomology Collection
>     Marsh Labs, Room 50
>     1911 West Lincoln Street
>     Montana State University
>     Bozeman, MT 59718
>     USA
>
>
>     (406) 994-4610 (voice)
>     (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
>     mivie at montana.edu
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Taxacom Mailing List
>
>     Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>     For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>     https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>     <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
>     You can reach the person managing the list at:
>     taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>     The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>     https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C372ee5b8a2fc4bd1b00308db744374fd%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231605301643794%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zji%2F3yis9V0wm%2FNcd6%2FrgMywTv9v6JBB09f78UcOCz8%3D&reserved=0
>     <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C372ee5b8a2fc4bd1b00308db744374fd%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231605301643794%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zji%2F3yis9V0wm%2FNcd6%2FrgMywTv9v6JBB09f78UcOCz8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>     Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
>     alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Taxacom Mailing List
>
>     Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>     For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>     https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>     <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
>     You can reach the person managing the list at:
>     taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>     The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>     https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C372ee5b8a2fc4bd1b00308db744374fd%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231605301643794%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zji%2F3yis9V0wm%2FNcd6%2FrgMywTv9v6JBB09f78UcOCz8%3D&reserved=0
>     <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C372ee5b8a2fc4bd1b00308db744374fd%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638231605301643794%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zji%2F3yis9V0wm%2FNcd6%2FrgMywTv9v6JBB09f78UcOCz8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>     Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
>     alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
-- 
__________________________________________________

Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box 173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA

UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA


(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu

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