Taxacom: Definitions

Sun Aug 27 13:21:41 CDT 2023

John Grehan raised an interesting question on ‘fraud’ in science relative to ‘CODA’ explanations in biogeography (‘Centers of Origin, Dispersal, and Adaptation’). I’m not entirely sure ‘fraud’ is the right word, but the issues addressed did remind me of a passage from Orwell:

“At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is ‘not done’ to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was ‘not done’ to mention trousers in the presence of a lady.”

John later wrote:

“In some past papers there have been some objections to the validity of panbiogeography, even by some vicariance cladists (!) who contrarily also claimed that panbiogeography is one of the foundations for the validity of vicariance biogeography (figure that one out)”.

And Michael Heads added:

“vicariance cladistics (Nelson, Platnick etc.) adopted the idea that topologically congruent area cladograms (phylogenies) for different groups were evidence for vicariance, incongruence meant chance dispersal. Croizat, Robin Craw and myself criticised these analyses in the early 1980s on the basis of their a priori areas ('Australia' 'South America' etc.), neglect of any geological history apart from continental drift, neglect of pre-drift differentiation, assumption of ancestral monomorphism etc”.

Parts of these two summaries are inaccurate, as least with respect to how biogeography developed in certain quarters, but that can be passed over (for the moment) as detail. What is of significance is that both parties -- panbiogeographers, ‘vicariance cladists’, never mind any definitions – agreed that ‘CODA’ was found to be faulty, if not entirely false.

Orwell’s words above are from an unused (suppressed) preface to Animal Farm (published in 1945). This unused preface addressing “The Freedom of the Press” was not actually published until 1972 – perhaps, then, suppression is more appropriate.

David

________________________________
From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of Michael Heads via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
Sent: 27 August 2023 01:52
To: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: Taxacom: Definitions

vicariance cladistics (Nelson, Platnick etc.) adopted the idea that
topologically congruent area cladograms (phylogenies) for different groups
were evidence for vicariance, incongruence meant chance dispersal. Croizat,
Robin Craw and myself criticised these analyses in the early 1980s on the
basis of their a priori areas ('Australia' 'South America' etc.), neglect
of any geological history apart from continental drift, neglect of
pre-drift differentiation, assumption of ancestral monomorphism etc.

On Sun, Aug 27, 2023 at 12:06 PM John Grehan via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:

> Hi Richard,
>
> No, I Cannot provide an authoritative definition. It used to be simple,
> with vicariance biogeography, but then some morphing took place to
> vicariance cladistics. I don't keep up with who does exactly what in terms
> of definitions. I think Morrone may have generated a definition, but I
> don't have it to hand.
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 3:36 PM Richard Jensen <rjensen at saintmarys.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > In your most recent post, you referred to "vicariance cladists".  Could
> > you please provide a means for someone to determine if a person is a
> > vicariance cladist or not?  This may require your definitions of both
> > terms, as the latter, in particular, has gone through several iterations
> > over the past 40 years or so.  Or, am I permitted to apply my own
> > definitions to each term? If the latter, then how will I know if we are
> > writing about the same thing?  It seems the definitions we use are
> > necessary to prevent a repeat of the "fraud" missives that currently
> > dominated this list.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 12:46 AM John Grehan via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> So as not to confuse with other issues, I teased this item out. My view
> >> about definitions not mattering is in the context that definitions only
> >> state what one has already decided or what one thinks one already knows.
> >> Within those constraints definitions may matter, but they are just a
> >> summary of a certain knowledge or decisions, not a key to the unknown
> >> which
> >> is what science is concerned with. For example, if I were to define
> >> evolution as space + time + form, that may well be very informative to
> >> some, and not so informative to others. So, dealing with the unknown,
> the
> >> ascertainment of new knowledge, definitions really don't matter. But of
> >> course thousands may think otherwise, and that's OK with me too.
> >>
> >> Cheers, John
> >>
> >> --
> >> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yz06weZycbzA0iXfLAedeadHmewQy8c89vxP2jrhUng%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yz06weZycbzA0iXfLAedeadHmewQy8c89vxP2jrhUng%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web site'
> >> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>
> >> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZYT4sfmHAMoGg%2FGIGi7LkiPB%2BRPcnOAgSWY7T47cDHE%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7flxkbUY4RJ7E5l9HQkeOcsKEAgpOFmUqClJnsqrYMs%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7flxkbUY4RJ7E5l9HQkeOcsKEAgpOFmUqClJnsqrYMs%3D&reserved=0>
> >>
> >> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> >> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Richard Jensen, Professor Emeritus
> > Department of Biology
> > Saint Mary's College
> > Notre Dame, IN 46556
> >
>
>
> --
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yz06weZycbzA0iXfLAedeadHmewQy8c89vxP2jrhUng%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yz06weZycbzA0iXfLAedeadHmewQy8c89vxP2jrhUng%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZYT4sfmHAMoGg%2FGIGi7LkiPB%2BRPcnOAgSWY7T47cDHE%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7flxkbUY4RJ7E5l9HQkeOcsKEAgpOFmUqClJnsqrYMs%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7flxkbUY4RJ7E5l9HQkeOcsKEAgpOFmUqClJnsqrYMs%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>

--
Dunedin, New Zealand.

My books:

*Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
Raton FL. 2017.
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SCrUkjEvb8yNjR29bl89pwpPhfxXggokcsmL3u9mSdQ%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573108942128%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SCrUkjEvb8yNjR29bl89pwpPhfxXggokcsmL3u9mSdQ%3D&reserved=0>

*Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SrehL%2FSvIeGEV6cHlNpnWjaChZ5NYStuhIP4Q0PhS5w%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SrehL%2FSvIeGEV6cHlNpnWjaChZ5NYStuhIP4Q0PhS5w%3D&reserved=0>

*Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zNtrNnORN9KCLPJF4lQ1lhPcEVSEIg3kAM1ORZo3eLQ%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zNtrNnORN9KCLPJF4lQ1lhPcEVSEIg3kAM1ORZo3eLQ%3D&reserved=0>

*Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zCBehyN8%2BJjF0FipxrHS%2Bk8mIUMgIlvyqFA6Scd16CM%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zCBehyN8%2BJjF0FipxrHS%2Bk8mIUMgIlvyqFA6Scd16CM%3D&reserved=0>
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC%26dq%3Dpanbiogeography%26source%3Dgbs_navlinks_s&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=4bBu5K5k%2FENiEK6hqrBCIYMKypKE5mbXt%2BY5RsdZQMU%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC%26dq%3Dpanbiogeography%26source%3Dgbs_navlinks_s&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=4bBu5K5k%2FENiEK6hqrBCIYMKypKE5mbXt%2BY5RsdZQMU%3D&reserved=0>>
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List

Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rkK4M4XuxPu2Q0sBO%2BCNQvpmgvaC2heoiO9buVb9MJc%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=n0KRADbZxVYDIg4viuu1p7bJcFnMfaqk552muSKkCyc%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C95a6668fb46b401c472c08dba72a79f9%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638287573109098344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=n0KRADbZxVYDIg4viuu1p7bJcFnMfaqk552muSKkCyc%3D&reserved=0>

Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.