Taxacom: Taxacom Digest, Vol 189, Issue 13
Francisco Welter-Schultes
fwelter at gwdg.de
Sat Jan 22 14:37:27 CST 2022
Absolutely, Alain. The name can only be valid if no senior synonym
interferes.
I extracted from the content that the term "valid" was misapplied in
John's request, and that the question was about the availability.
Best wishes
Francisco
Am 22.01.2022 um 19:29 schrieb Alain Dubois via Taxacom:
> Dear all,
>
> Please note that all this thread was about the nomenclatural availability
> of the nomen Magnificus, not about its validity, as wrongly stated by
> several commentators (including Commission's members).
>
> The Code deals with availability in its chapter 4, and with validity in its
> chapter 6. Nothing in this discussion was about validity. The confusion
> between availability and validity is a basic error of newcomers to
> zoological nomenclature, and understanding the difference between both
> concepts should be a basic step before addressing more complex
> nomenclatural matters.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Alain
> ____________________________________
>
> Professeur Émérite Alain Dubois
> Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle
> Institut Systématique, Evolution, Biodiversité (ISYEB) - UMR 7205
> Reptiles & Amphibiens
> CP 30
> 25 rue Cuvier
> 75005 Paris
> France
>
> Adresses e-mail: <sapo421 at gmail.com>, <adbionomina at gmail.com>, <
> adpeerj at gmail.com>, <adubois at mnhn.fr>
>
> Blogs personnels:
> Sur Overblog: <lherbu.com>
> Sur Mediapart: <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblogs.mediapart.fr%2Falaindubois-0%2Fblog&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=jIVcI9w7B%2Buzaz2yj%2BB5bne%2FGwPD1rLOvu7Z3AblAtI%3D&reserved=0>
>
> President, Linz Zoocode Committee
> <zoologos22 at gmail.com>
>
> Chief Editor, Bionomina
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mapress.com%2Fbionomina&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=jReUmujp31%2F880jRgzX9p%2FsoLssC1jA5wgNFUP984Ww%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Nomenclature Editor, Zootaxa
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mapress.com%2Fzootaxa%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=gHbceJb6FUBS9qWSIXpvLVcBIoHEwJBdhIBDkHIppwk%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Academic Editor, PeerJ
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpeerj.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7xVxSwaJx5bcSsWijcPE%2B3a3bqqXDvu%2FjNLRTJ8EAm4%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Website of the journal Alytes
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.alytes-journal.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2F9sRIQTW68R%2FoUntl8mAkKvV5MomIhkyk2%2FTNKDJ0wM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Website of the journal Dumerilia
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdumerilia.wifeo.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=zTpB%2FLhgIziwGf7oYWVsuQTrxjxvnrbSwPMhZfHb4Ko%3D&reserved=0>
> ____________________________________
>
> “La culture ce n’est pas avoir le cerveau farci de dates, de noms ou de
> chiffres, c’est la qualité du jugement, l’exigence logique, l’appétit de la
> preuve, la notion de la complexité des choses et de l’arduité des
> problèmes. C’est l’habitude du doute, le discernement dans la méfiance, la
> modestie d’opinion, la patience d’ignorer, la certitude qu’on n’a jamais
> tout le vrai en partage; c’est avoir l’esprit ferme sans l’avoir rigide,
> c’est être armé contre le flou et aussi contre la fausse précision, c’est
> refuser tous les fanatismes et jusqu’à ceux qui s’autorisent de la raison;
> c’est suspecter les dogmatismes officiels mais sans profit pour les
> charlatans, c’est révérer le génie mais sans en faire une idole, c’est
> toujours préférer ce qui est à ce qu’on préférerait qui fût.”
> (Jean Rostand, Le droit d’être naturaliste, 1963).
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Le sam. 22 janv. 2022 à 19:00, <taxacom-request at lists.ku.edu> a écrit :
>
>> Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> When responding to a message, please do not copy the entire digest into
>> your reply.
>> ____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Stephen Thorpe)
>> 2. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (John Grehan)
>> 3. Re: Taxacom Genus name question (Beach, James H.)
>> 4. Re: Taxacom Digest, Vol 189, Issue 12 (Steven Tracey)
>> 5. Re: Taxacom Genus name question (John Grehan)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 06:05:27 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> To: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>, John Grehan
>> <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID: <1049354245.1292927.1642831527509 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> A magnificent result, John (or perhaps a result exhibiting
>> magnificence!)Stephen
>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 06:25:14 pm NZDT, John Grehan <
>> calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Amending?my initial comment - after going over all the commentary in more
>> detail I realize that there was indeed consensus about the validity of
>> Magnificus. Disagreements were over associated issues. After having already
>> published a revision of Magnificus I am very happy that there is no need to
>> change the name!
>> John
>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 12:02 AM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> My appreciation to Scott, Stephen, and everyone else who provided input on
>> this question. I feel a lot happier that there was pretty much consensus,
>> or almost so, for accepting Magnificus as valid. Very glad that there is no
>> imperative to change it. Sometimes tability is a good thing.
>> Cheers, John
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 4:38 PM Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be one,
>> I am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else
>> is fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>> Cheers Scott
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> 11.8.?Genus-group names
>>
>> A genus-group name (see also?Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative singular.
>> TREATED AS
>> ? ? On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:?
>>
>> ?I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the name
>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an allusion
>> to this aspect).
>>
>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>> following comments:
>>
>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>
>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>
>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>
>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names are
>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>> taxonomic usages.
>>
>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names are
>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic name:
>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>
>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.? In
>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>
>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>
>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have to
>> be a noun? In that respect there is a? name 'Viridigigas" but neither green
>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>
>> John Grehan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> http://lists.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
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>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
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>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> http://lists.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Thomson
>>
>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> Brasil
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>
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>> Faendalimas
>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 01:20:42 -0500
>> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CADN0ud2F18-Ap4PRS6iOiTojiGTZx6L3xh3orP8YRSa1orT2dQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Ha ha! From now on just call me 'Your Magnificence'. :)
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 1:05 AM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A magnificent result, John (or perhaps a result exhibiting magnificence!)
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 06:25:14 pm NZDT, John Grehan <
>>> calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Amending my initial comment - after going over all the commentary in more
>>> detail I realize that there was indeed consensus about the validity of
>>> Magnificus. Disagreements were over associated issues. After having
>> already
>>> published a revision of Magnificus I am very happy that there is no need
>> to
>>> change the name!
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 12:02 AM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> My appreciation to Scott, Stephen, and everyone else who provided input
>> on
>>> this question. I feel a lot happier that there was pretty much consensus,
>>> or almost so, for accepting Magnificus as valid. Very glad that there is
>> no
>>> imperative to change it. Sometimes tability is a good thing.
>>>
>>> Cheers, John
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 4:38 PM Scott Thomson <
>> scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be one,
>>> I am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything
>> else
>>> is fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>
>>> Cheers Scott
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>
>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative singular.
>>> TREATED AS
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>> name
>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>> allusion
>>> to this aspect).
>>>
>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>> following comments:
>>>
>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>
>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>
>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>
>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>> are
>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>
>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>> are
>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>> name:
>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>
>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>> In
>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>
>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>
>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have
>> to
>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>> green
>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>
>>> John Grehan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>> http://lists.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>> http://lists.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Thomson
>>>
>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>> Brasil
>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Skype: Faendalimas
>>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 15:34:21 +0000
>> From: "Beach, James H." <beach at ku.edu>
>> To: TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> BL3PR01MB7041A1B04906066B0D714E41D35C9 at BL3PR01MB7041.prod.exchangelabs.com
>>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> So that is what this spurt was all about! Pretty clever.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> James H. Beach
>> Biodiversity Institute
>> University of Kansas
>> 1345 Jayhawk Blvd.
>> Lawrence, KS 66045
>> Cell: 1 785 331-8508
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of John Grehan via
>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022, 12:22 AM
>> To: Stephen Thorpe
>> Cc: TAXACOM
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>>
>> Ha ha! From now on just call me 'Your Magnificence'. :)
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 1:05 AM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A magnificent result, John (or perhaps a result exhibiting magnificence!)
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 06:25:14 pm NZDT, John Grehan <
>>> calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Amending my initial comment - after going over all the commentary in more
>>> detail I realize that there was indeed consensus about the validity of
>>> Magnificus. Disagreements were over associated issues. After having
>> already
>>> published a revision of Magnificus I am very happy that there is no need
>> to
>>> change the name!
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 12:02 AM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> My appreciation to Scott, Stephen, and everyone else who provided input
>> on
>>> this question. I feel a lot happier that there was pretty much consensus,
>>> or almost so, for accepting Magnificus as valid. Very glad that there is
>> no
>>> imperative to change it. Sometimes tability is a good thing.
>>>
>>> Cheers, John
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 4:38 PM Scott Thomson <
>> scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be one,
>>> I am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything
>> else
>>> is fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>
>>> Cheers Scott
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>
>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative singular.
>>> TREATED AS
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>> name
>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>> allusion
>>> to this aspect).
>>>
>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>> following comments:
>>>
>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>
>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>
>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>
>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>> are
>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>
>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>> are
>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>> name:
>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>
>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>> In
>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>
>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>
>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have
>> to
>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>> green
>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>
>>> John Grehan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>> http://lists.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>> http://lists.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Thomson
>>>
>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>> Brasil
>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>> Skype: Faendalimas
>>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 16:18:45 +0000
>> From: Steven Tracey <s.tracey at nhm.ac.uk>
>> To: "taxacom at lists.ku.edu" <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom Digest, Vol 189, Issue 12
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> LO2P265MB43499E8AECDA79255839D12AC85C9 at LO2P265MB4349.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
>>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Ficus is a Latin noun meaning "fig".
>> Magnificus might well have been intended as a Latinization meaning "Big
>> fig".
>> The fact that there is an adjective with the same spelling is therefore
>> irrelevant.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Steve
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of
>> taxacom-request at lists.ku.edu <taxacom-request at lists.ku.edu>
>> Sent: 22 January 2022 05:26
>> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Taxacom Digest, Vol 189, Issue 12
>>
>> Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> When responding to a message, please do not copy the entire digest into
>> your reply.
>> ____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Taxacom| Genus name question (John Grehan)
>> 2. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Stephen Thorpe)
>> 3. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Scott Thomson)
>> 4. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Douglas Yanega)
>> 5. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (John Bruner)
>> 6. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Stephen Thorpe)
>> 7. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (John Bruner)
>> 8. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Stephen Thorpe)
>> 9. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (John Bruner)
>> 10. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Stephen Thorpe)
>> 11. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (John Bruner)
>> 12. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Stephen Thorpe)
>> 13. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Francisco Welter-Schultes)
>> 14. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (Scott Thomson)
>> 15. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (David Redei)
>> 16. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (John Grehan)
>> 17. Re: Taxacom| Genus name question (John Grehan)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 16:09:30 -0500
>> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <CADN0ud3qgPpu98x1kDCOCozOpQPF1Wq3oH=_BBNK7OfSEnH-=
>> A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the name
>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an allusion
>> to this aspect).
>>
>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>> following comments:
>>
>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>
>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>
>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>
>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names are
>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>> taxonomic usages.
>>
>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names are
>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic name:
>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>
>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific. In
>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>
>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>
>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have to
>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither green
>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>
>> John Grehan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 21:32:26 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, John Grehan
>> <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID: <95608845.1184068.1642800746233 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>>
>> 11.8.?Genus-group names
>>
>> A genus-group name (see also?Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative singular.
>> TREATED AS
>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the name
>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an allusion
>> to this aspect).
>>
>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>> following comments:
>>
>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>
>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>
>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>
>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names are
>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>> taxonomic usages.
>>
>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names are
>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic name:
>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>
>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.? In
>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>
>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>
>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have to
>> be a noun? In that respect there is a? name 'Viridigigas" but neither green
>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>
>> John Grehan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 18:38:01 -0300
>> From: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>> To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <CADRwqwhbcTJRuLc=
>> 1pCFKiDvPdPDOcUuD8UJcP6sGYKRRg1VhQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be one, I
>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else is
>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>
>> Cheers Scott
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>
>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative singular.
>>> TREATED AS
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>> name
>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>> allusion
>>> to this aspect).
>>>
>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>> following comments:
>>>
>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>
>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>
>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>
>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>> are
>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>
>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>> are
>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>> name:
>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>
>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>> In
>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>
>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>
>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have
>> to
>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>> green
>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>
>>> John Grehan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Thomson
>>
>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> Brasil
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> Skype: Faendalimas
>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 13:44:10 -0800
>> From: Douglas Yanega <dyanega at gmail.com>
>> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID: <f67d2414-be6f-3db1-e88e-700acf24ec03 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Pretty much literally any combination of characters in the Roman
>> alphabet can be a valid genus name.
>>
>> Aa, Aaaba, Aha, Ba, Csiro, Eboo, Ia, Iouea, Ittys, Iyaiyai, Keylimepie,
>> Nat, Ohenri, Quasi, Sinatra, This, Ua, Wawu, Zappa, and Zyzzyzus are all
>> valid genus names.
>>
>> See my page linked below.
>>
>> Peace
>>
>> --
>> Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum
>> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 skype: dyanega
>> phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.ucr.edu%2F~heraty%2Fyanega.html&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dmpsUK5CMz0Yy2JvrcGRtR1BmVteABpql4BYIMPbgjo%3D&reserved=0
>> "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
>> is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 14:51:44 -0700
>> From: John Bruner <jbruner at ualberta.ca>
>> To: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAE1TnqLSFtFoYMdqhNiWNw-AZiY53T9zeMYCh_XypEeG0tXo8A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Dear John Grehan:
>>
>> I agree with Scott. I would accept *Magnificus. *It is a nominative
>> singular noun. *Fourth declension *or u-nouns end with
>> -*us*, or if neuter, *-ua* in the nominative, and *-uum* in the genitive
>> plural.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be
>> one, I
>>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else
>> is
>>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>
>>> Cheers Scott
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>>
>>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or
>> more
>>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative
>> singular.
>>>> TREATED AS
>>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the
>> name
>>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>>> name
>>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>>> allusion
>>>> to this aspect).
>>>>
>>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>>> following comments:
>>>>
>>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed
>> up
>>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>>
>>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>>
>>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>>
>>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>>> are
>>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>>
>>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>>> are
>>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared
>> in
>>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like
>> Rumblustumblus
>>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>>> name:
>>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>>
>>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>>> In
>>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>>
>>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is
>> absolutely
>>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>>
>>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus
>> have
>>> to
>>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>>> green
>>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>>
>>>> John Grehan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Thomson
>>>
>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>> Brasil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>> ORCID:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>>> Lattes: *
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>> Skype: Faendalimas
>>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
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>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=W9i2USMyj88OX2xNbcaE624vfaaGjtHGyqpmCRw9srw%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>> * University of Alberta *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>> *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 21:58:07 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> To: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>, John Bruner
>> <jbruner at ualberta.ca>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID: <1307258577.1207353.1642802287379 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> This does illustrate the unfortunate tendency for people to try to rename
>> taxa too glibly (though John Grehan did at least have the good sense to ask
>> for clarification first). Renaming for nomenclatural reasons should only be
>> an absolute last resort when the need for it is 100% clear. Stephen
>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:51:57 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Dear John Grehan:
>> ? ? ?I agree with Scott. I would accept Magnificus. It is a nominative
>> singular noun. Fourth declension or u-nouns end with?-us, or if neuter, -ua
>> in the nominative, and -uum?in the genitive plural.
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be one, I
>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else is
>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>
>> Cheers Scott
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>
>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative singular.
>>> TREATED AS
>>> ? ? ?On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>> name
>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>> allusion
>>> to this aspect).
>>>
>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>> following comments:
>>>
>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>
>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>
>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>
>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>> are
>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>
>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>> are
>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>> name:
>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>
>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.?
>> In
>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>
>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>
>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have
>> to
>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a? name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>> green
>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>
>>> John Grehan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Thomson
>>
>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> Brasil
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> Skype: Faendalimas
>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=W9i2USMyj88OX2xNbcaE624vfaaGjtHGyqpmCRw9srw%3D&reserved=0
>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ? ? ? ? John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*
>> * Department of Biological Sciences ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * University of Alberta ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta ? ?_______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9? CANADA ? ? /_ @? > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 ? ? ?\ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 ? ? ? ? ? \> ? ? ?\> ? ? ?\==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * EMAIL:?jbruner at ualberta.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0?
>> ? ? ? ? *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 14:59:05 -0700
>> From: John Bruner <jbruner at ualberta.ca>
>> To: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAE1Tnq+m6uAeHWhHw3rrcgTa5JoT_tOsfLh57=
>> eZh2QJ6_5FYw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> I am afraid I disagree with my better, Douglas Yanega. The generic name
>> must be a Latinized nominative singular noun.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM John Bruner <jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear John Grehan:
>>>
>>> I agree with Scott. I would accept *Magnificus. *It is a nominative
>>> singular noun. *Fourth declension *or u-nouns end with
>>> -*us*, or if neuter, *-ua* in the nominative, and *-uum* in the genitive
>>> plural.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be
>> one,
>>>> I
>>>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else
>>>> is
>>>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Scott
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>>>
>>>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or
>> more
>>>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative
>>>> singular.
>>>>> TREATED AS
>>>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the
>> name
>>>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>>>> name
>>>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>>>> allusion
>>>>> to this aspect).
>>>>>
>>>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>>>> following comments:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed
>>>> up
>>>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>>>
>>>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>>>> are
>>>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>>>
>>>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>>>> are
>>>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared
>>>> in
>>>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like
>> Rumblustumblus
>>>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>>>> name:
>>>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>>>
>>>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course
>>>> specific. In
>>>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is
>> absolutely
>>>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus
>>>> have to
>>>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>>>> green
>>>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>>>
>>>>> John Grehan
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>>>> 1987-2022.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>>>> 1987-2022.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Scott Thomson
>>>>
>>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>>> Brasil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> ORCID:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Lattes: *
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>>>> <
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>> Skype: Faendalimas
>>>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=W9i2USMyj88OX2xNbcaE624vfaaGjtHGyqpmCRw9srw%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> John
>>> *******************************************************
>>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>>> * University of Alberta *
>>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> *
>>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>> *
>>> *******************************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>> * University of Alberta *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>> *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 22:13:05 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> To: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>, John Bruner
>> <jbruner at ualberta.ca>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID: <30180482.1199621.1642803185559 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Or treated as one! Read the Code!
>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:59:18 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>> I am afraid I disagree with my better, Douglas Yanega. The generic name
>> must be a Latinized nominative singular?noun.?
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM John Bruner <jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Dear John Grehan:
>> ? ? ?I agree with Scott. I would accept Magnificus. It is a nominative
>> singular noun. Fourth declension or u-nouns end with?-us, or if neuter, -ua
>> in the nominative, and -uum?in the genitive plural.
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be one, I
>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else is
>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>
>> Cheers Scott
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>
>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative singular.
>>> TREATED AS
>>> ? ? ?On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>> name
>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>> allusion
>>> to this aspect).
>>>
>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>> following comments:
>>>
>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>
>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>
>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>
>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>> are
>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>
>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>> are
>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>> name:
>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>
>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.?
>> In
>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>
>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>
>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have
>> to
>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a? name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>> green
>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>
>>> John Grehan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Thomson
>>
>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> Brasil
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> Skype: Faendalimas
>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
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>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ? ? ? ? John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*
>> * Department of Biological Sciences ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * University of Alberta ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta ? ?_______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9? CANADA ? ? /_ @? > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 ? ? ?\ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 ? ? ? ? ? \> ? ? ?\> ? ? ?\==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * EMAIL:?jbruner at ualberta.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0?
>> ? ? ? ? *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ? ? ? ? John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*
>> * Department of Biological Sciences ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * University of Alberta ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta ? ?_______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9? CANADA ? ? /_ @? > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 ? ? ?\ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 ? ? ? ? ? \> ? ? ?\> ? ? ?\==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * EMAIL:?jbruner at ualberta.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0?
>> ? ? ? ? *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 15:15:26 -0700
>> From: John Bruner <jbruner at ualberta.ca>
>> To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAE1TnqLthA1OnjANjEmuLO73+mLFtXyaRWNg8bp42jOE1PWFqg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Yes, I agree. An example in Ichthyology, the AFS/ASIH Fish Names Committee
>> incorrectly accepted the German word Sander as the senior synonym for the
>> genus *Stizostedion *(Walleye, Sauger, and European Pikeperch).
>> *Stizostedion
>> *had been correctly in use for 183 years. To make Sander (an alternate
>> German spelling of Zander *Stizostedion lucioperca*), a Latinized
>> nominative singular noun, the correctly formed Latin noun would be
>> *Sandrus*.
>> In 1828, 8 years after the correctly formed *Stizostedion *was published in
>> 1820 by Rafinesque, Stark (1828) published *Sandrus. *Sander had been
>> published as a common name prior to 1820 (Bloch, 1785; Fischer, 1791, and
>> Okenfuss (as Oken, 1817) but not as a Latinized name.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:58 PM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This does illustrate the unfortunate tendency for people to try to rename
>>> taxa too glibly (though John Grehan did at least have the good sense to
>> ask
>>> for clarification first). Renaming for nomenclatural reasons should only
>> be
>>> an absolute last resort when the need for it is 100% clear. Stephen
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:51:57 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear John Grehan:
>>>
>>> I agree with Scott. I would accept *Magnificus. *It is a nominative
>>> singular noun. *Fourth declension *or u-nouns end with
>>> -*us*, or if neuter, *-ua* in the nominative, and *-uum* in the genitive
>>> plural.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be
>> one, I
>>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else
>> is
>>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>
>>> Cheers Scott
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>>
>>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or
>> more
>>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative
>> singular.
>>>> TREATED AS
>>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the
>> name
>>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>>> name
>>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>>> allusion
>>>> to this aspect).
>>>>
>>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>>> following comments:
>>>>
>>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed
>> up
>>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>>
>>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>>
>>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>>
>>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>>> are
>>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>>
>>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>>> are
>>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared
>> in
>>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like
>> Rumblustumblus
>>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>>> name:
>>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>>
>>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>>> In
>>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>>
>>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is
>> absolutely
>>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>>
>>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus
>> have
>>> to
>>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>>> green
>>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>>
>>>> John Grehan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Thomson
>>>
>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>> Brasil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>> ORCID:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>>> Lattes: *
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>> Skype: Faendalimas
>>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=W9i2USMyj88OX2xNbcaE624vfaaGjtHGyqpmCRw9srw%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> *******************************************************
>>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>>> * University of Alberta *
>>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> *
>>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>>> *
>>> *******************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>> * University of Alberta *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>> *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 22:29:30 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> To: John Bruner <jbruner at ualberta.ca>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID: <1941432866.1212801.1642804170817 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> It is a bit unclear what exactly you are agreeing with, but to be
>> available, a word has to have been clearly intended as a generic name,
>> rather than as a common name or descriptive adjective per se
>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 11:15:39 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I agree. An example in Ichthyology, the AFS/ASIH Fish Names
>> Committee incorrectly accepted the German word Sander as the senior synonym
>> for the genus Stizostedion (Walleye, Sauger, and European Pikeperch).
>> ?Stizostedion had been correctly in use for 183 years. To make Sander (an
>> alternate German spelling of Zander Stizostedion lucioperca), a Latinized
>> nominative singular noun, the correctly formed Latin noun would be Sandrus.
>> In 1828, 8 years after the correctly formed?Stizostedion was published in
>> 1820 by Rafinesque, Stark (1828) published Sandrus. Sander had been
>> published as a common name prior to 1820 (Bloch, 1785; Fischer, 1791, and
>> Okenfuss (as Oken, 1817) but not as a Latinized name.?
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:58 PM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> wrote:
>>
>> This does illustrate the unfortunate tendency for people to try to rename
>> taxa too glibly (though John Grehan did at least have the good sense to ask
>> for clarification first). Renaming for nomenclatural reasons should only be
>> an absolute last resort when the need for it is 100% clear. Stephen
>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:51:57 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Dear John Grehan:
>> ? ? ?I agree with Scott. I would accept Magnificus. It is a nominative
>> singular noun. Fourth declension or u-nouns end with?-us, or if neuter, -ua
>> in the nominative, and -uum?in the genitive plural.
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be one, I
>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else is
>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>
>> Cheers Scott
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>
>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative singular.
>>> TREATED AS
>>> ? ? ?On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>> name
>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>> allusion
>>> to this aspect).
>>>
>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>> following comments:
>>>
>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>
>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>
>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>
>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>> are
>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>
>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>> are
>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>> name:
>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>
>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.?
>> In
>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>
>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>
>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have
>> to
>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a? name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>> green
>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>
>>> John Grehan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
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>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Thomson
>>
>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> Brasil
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> Skype: Faendalimas
>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
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>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ? ? ? ? John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*
>> * Department of Biological Sciences ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * University of Alberta ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta ? ?_______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9? CANADA ? ? /_ @? > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 ? ? ?\ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 ? ? ? ? ? \> ? ? ?\> ? ? ?\==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * EMAIL:?jbruner at ualberta.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0?
>> ? ? ? ? *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ? ? ? ? John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*
>> * Department of Biological Sciences ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * University of Alberta ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta ? ?_______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9? CANADA ? ? /_ @? > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 ? ? ?\ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 ? ? ? ? ? \> ? ? ?\> ? ? ?\==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * EMAIL:?jbruner at ualberta.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0?
>> ? ? ? ? *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 19:00:56 -0700
>> From: John Bruner <jbruner at ualberta.ca>
>> To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAE1TnqJ0K8c4Y2i6rcd5Gqgbz8uJfnAhzat6y1=
>> JsY3tHFMC2w at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Wrong! It must be a Latinized nominative singular noun. Lorenz Okenfuss,
>> who published under the name Oken, published an Encyclopedia in 1816 in two
>> parts which was declared off limits in Opinion 417 for taxonomic purposes
>> because of his use of common names as scientific names. You can't use any
>> name you feel like as a generic name.
>>
>> *Hemming, F. 1956*. Opinion 417. Rejection for nomenclatorial purposes of
>> volume 3 (Zoologie) of the work by Lorenz Oken entitled Okens Lehrbuch der
>> Naturgeschichte published in 1815? 1816. Opinions and declarations rendered
>> by the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature 14(Part 1):1?42.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 3:29 PM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It is a bit unclear what exactly you are agreeing with, but to be
>>> available, a word has to have been clearly intended as a generic name,
>>> rather than as a common name or descriptive adjective per se
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 11:15:39 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree. An example in Ichthyology, the AFS/ASIH Fish Names
>> Committee
>>> incorrectly accepted the German word Sander as the senior synonym for the
>>> genus *Stizostedion *(Walleye, Sauger, and European Pikeperch).
>> *Stizostedion
>>> *had been correctly in use for 183 years. To make Sander (an alternate
>>> German spelling of Zander *Stizostedion lucioperca*), a Latinized
>>> nominative singular noun, the correctly formed Latin noun would be
>>> *Sandrus*. In 1828, 8 years after the correctly formed *Stizostedion *was
>>> published in 1820 by Rafinesque, Stark (1828) published *Sandrus. *Sander
>>> had been published as a common name prior to 1820 (Bloch, 1785; Fischer,
>>> 1791, and Okenfuss (as Oken, 1817) but not as a Latinized name.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:58 PM Stephen Thorpe <
>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This does illustrate the unfortunate tendency for people to try to rename
>>> taxa too glibly (though John Grehan did at least have the good sense to
>> ask
>>> for clarification first). Renaming for nomenclatural reasons should only
>> be
>>> an absolute last resort when the need for it is 100% clear. Stephen
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:51:57 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear John Grehan:
>>>
>>> I agree with Scott. I would accept *Magnificus. *It is a nominative
>>> singular noun. *Fourth declension *or u-nouns end with
>>> -*us*, or if neuter, *-ua* in the nominative, and *-uum* in the genitive
>>> plural.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be
>> one, I
>>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else
>> is
>>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>
>>> Cheers Scott
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>>
>>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or
>> more
>>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative
>> singular.
>>>> TREATED AS
>>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the
>> name
>>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>>> name
>>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>>> allusion
>>>> to this aspect).
>>>>
>>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>>> following comments:
>>>>
>>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed
>> up
>>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>>
>>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>>
>>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>>
>>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>>> are
>>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>>
>>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>>> are
>>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared
>> in
>>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like
>> Rumblustumblus
>>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>>> name:
>>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>>
>>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>>> In
>>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>>
>>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is
>> absolutely
>>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>>
>>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus
>> have
>>> to
>>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>>> green
>>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>>
>>>> John Grehan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
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>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Thomson
>>>
>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>> Brasil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>> ORCID:
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>>> Lattes: *
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>> Skype: Faendalimas
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>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> *******************************************************
>>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>>> * University of Alberta *
>>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> *
>>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>>> *
>>> *******************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> John
>>> *******************************************************
>>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>>> * University of Alberta *
>>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> *
>>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>> *
>>> *******************************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>> * University of Alberta *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>> *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 02:21:22 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> To: John Bruner <jbruner at ualberta.ca>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID: <878093281.1252761.1642818082254 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Opinions on particular cases are not to be used as precedents applicable
>> more generally. Best to avoid use of "wrong", in favour of "I disagree'
>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 03:01:11 pm NZDT, John Bruner <
>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Wrong!? It must be a Latinized nominative singular noun. Lorenz Okenfuss,
>> who published under the name Oken, published an Encyclopedia?in 1816 in two
>> parts which was declared off limits?in Opinion 417 for taxonomic purposes
>> because of his use of common names as scientific names. You can't use any
>> name you feel like as a generic name.?
>> Hemming, F. 1956. Opinion 417. Rejection for nomenclatorial purposes of
>> volume 3 (Zoologie) of the work by Lorenz Oken entitled Okens Lehrbuch der
>> Naturgeschichte published in 1815? 1816. Opinions and declarations rendered
>> by the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature 14(Part 1):1?42.
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 3:29 PM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> wrote:
>>
>> It is a bit unclear what exactly you are agreeing with, but to be
>> available, a word has to have been clearly intended as a generic name,
>> rather than as a common name or descriptive adjective per se
>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 11:15:39 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I agree. An example in Ichthyology, the AFS/ASIH Fish Names
>> Committee incorrectly accepted the German word Sander as the senior synonym
>> for the genus Stizostedion (Walleye, Sauger, and European Pikeperch).
>> ?Stizostedion had been correctly in use for 183 years. To make Sander (an
>> alternate German spelling of Zander Stizostedion lucioperca), a Latinized
>> nominative singular noun, the correctly formed Latin noun would be Sandrus.
>> In 1828, 8 years after the correctly formed?Stizostedion was published in
>> 1820 by Rafinesque, Stark (1828) published Sandrus. Sander had been
>> published as a common name prior to 1820 (Bloch, 1785; Fischer, 1791, and
>> Okenfuss (as Oken, 1817) but not as a Latinized name.?
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:58 PM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> wrote:
>>
>> This does illustrate the unfortunate tendency for people to try to rename
>> taxa too glibly (though John Grehan did at least have the good sense to ask
>> for clarification first). Renaming for nomenclatural reasons should only be
>> an absolute last resort when the need for it is 100% clear. Stephen
>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:51:57 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Dear John Grehan:
>> ? ? ?I agree with Scott. I would accept Magnificus. It is a nominative
>> singular noun. Fourth declension or u-nouns end with?-us, or if neuter, -ua
>> in the nominative, and -uum?in the genitive plural.
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be one, I
>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else is
>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>
>> Cheers Scott
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>
>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative singular.
>>> TREATED AS
>>> ? ? ?On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>> name
>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>> allusion
>>> to this aspect).
>>>
>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>> following comments:
>>>
>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>
>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>
>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>
>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>> are
>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>
>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>> are
>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>> name:
>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>
>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.?
>> In
>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>
>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>
>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have
>> to
>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a? name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>> green
>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>
>>> John Grehan
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Thomson
>>
>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> Brasil
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> Skype: Faendalimas
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>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ? ? ? ? John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*
>> * Department of Biological Sciences ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * University of Alberta ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta ? ?_______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9? CANADA ? ? /_ @? > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 ? ? ?\ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 ? ? ? ? ? \> ? ? ?\> ? ? ?\==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * EMAIL:?jbruner at ualberta.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0?
>> ? ? ? ? *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ? ? ? ? John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*
>> * Department of Biological Sciences ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * University of Alberta ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta ? ?_______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9? CANADA ? ? /_ @? > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 ? ? ?\ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 ? ? ? ? ? \> ? ? ?\> ? ? ?\==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * EMAIL:?jbruner at ualberta.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0?
>> ? ? ? ? *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ? ? ? ? John
>> *******************************************************
>> * Mr. John C. Bruner ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?*
>> * Department of Biological Sciences ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * University of Alberta ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * Edmonton, Alberta ? ?_______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>> * T6G 2E9? CANADA ? ? /_ @? > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>> * (780) 492-5408 ? ? ?\ ______________,_________ ==== *
>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 ? ? ? ? ? \> ? ? ?\> ? ? ?\==== *
>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * EMAIL:?jbruner at ualberta.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? *
>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0?
>> ? ? ? ? *
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 04:05:47 +0100
>> From: Francisco Welter-Schultes <fwelter at gwdg.de>
>> To: <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID: <4e9d72e6-2836-d84f-58b2-d0ceff347926 at gwdg.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed
>>
>> Magnificus can be a genus-group name given that it was treated as a noun
>> in the original source, as Stephen explained.
>>
>> The genus-group name Sander was not made available by Oken in 1817, it
>> was a nomen nudum there on p. 1782.
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodiversitylibrary.org%2Fitem%2F47608%23page%2F608%2Fmode%2F1up&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ygESIfDGPOzpqgBJlZDYXmJ8JBN5dcFbSMUS8cyW0yM%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> If this helps.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Francisco
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Francisco Welter-Schultes
>>
>> Am 21.01.2022 um 22:09 schrieb John Grehan via Taxacom:
>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>> name
>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>> allusion
>>> to this aspect).
>>>
>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>> following comments:
>>>
>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed up
>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>
>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>
>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>
>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>> are
>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>
>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>> are
>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared in
>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>> name:
>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>
>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>> In
>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>
>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>
>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have
>> to
>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>> green
>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>
>>> John Grehan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 00:07:13 -0300
>> From: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>> To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <CADRwqwizjTUPaQK5o5CrQKwx-9Q2dV_8q7n1WRA=
>> mKkmRzpDLw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> My impression of that ruling was that the names and work was rejected due
>> to the inconsistent and essentially non use of binomial nomenclature
>> throughout. Not over the latin issue, As such there have been other
>> opinions from the ICZN in a similar vein where works were rejected due to
>> the non use of binomial nomenclature. I dont see the correlation to the
>> structure of latin words for nomenclature and that they must be nouns.
>>
>> Cheers Scott
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 11:21 PM Stephen Thorpe <
>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Opinions on particular cases are not to be used as precedents applicable
>>> more generally. Best to avoid use of "wrong", in favour of "I disagree'
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 03:01:11 pm NZDT, John Bruner <
>>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Wrong! It must be a Latinized nominative singular noun. Lorenz Okenfuss,
>>> who published under the name Oken, published an Encyclopedia in 1816 in
>> two
>>> parts which was declared off limits in Opinion 417 for taxonomic purposes
>>> because of his use of common names as scientific names. You can't use any
>>> name you feel like as a generic name.
>>>
>>> *Hemming, F. 1956*. Opinion 417. Rejection for nomenclatorial purposes of
>>> volume 3 (Zoologie) of the work by Lorenz Oken entitled Okens Lehrbuch
>> der
>>> Naturgeschichte published in 1815? 1816. Opinions and declarations
>> rendered
>>> by the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature 14(Part
>> 1):1?42.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 3:29 PM Stephen Thorpe <
>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is a bit unclear what exactly you are agreeing with, but to be
>>> available, a word has to have been clearly intended as a generic name,
>>> rather than as a common name or descriptive adjective per se
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 11:15:39 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree. An example in Ichthyology, the AFS/ASIH Fish Names
>> Committee
>>> incorrectly accepted the German word Sander as the senior synonym for the
>>> genus *Stizostedion *(Walleye, Sauger, and European Pikeperch).
>> *Stizostedion
>>> *had been correctly in use for 183 years. To make Sander (an alternate
>>> German spelling of Zander *Stizostedion lucioperca*), a Latinized
>>> nominative singular noun, the correctly formed Latin noun would be
>>> *Sandrus*. In 1828, 8 years after the correctly formed *Stizostedion *was
>>> published in 1820 by Rafinesque, Stark (1828) published *Sandrus. *Sander
>>> had been published as a common name prior to 1820 (Bloch, 1785; Fischer,
>>> 1791, and Okenfuss (as Oken, 1817) but not as a Latinized name.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:58 PM Stephen Thorpe <
>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This does illustrate the unfortunate tendency for people to try to rename
>>> taxa too glibly (though John Grehan did at least have the good sense to
>> ask
>>> for clarification first). Renaming for nomenclatural reasons should only
>> be
>>> an absolute last resort when the need for it is 100% clear. Stephen
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:51:57 am NZDT, John Bruner <
>>> jbruner at ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear John Grehan:
>>>
>>> I agree with Scott. I would accept *Magnificus. *It is a nominative
>>> singular noun. *Fourth declension *or u-nouns end with
>>> -*us*, or if neuter, *-ua* in the nominative, and *-uum* in the genitive
>>> plural.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be
>> one, I
>>> am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything else
>> is
>>> fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>
>>> Cheers Scott
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>>
>>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or
>> more
>>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative
>> singular.
>>>> TREATED AS
>>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the
>> name
>>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>>> name
>>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>>> allusion
>>>> to this aspect).
>>>>
>>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>>> following comments:
>>>>
>>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed
>> up
>>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>>
>>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>>
>>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>>
>>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>>> are
>>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>>
>>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>>> are
>>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared
>> in
>>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like
>> Rumblustumblus
>>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>>> name:
>>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>>
>>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>>> In
>>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>>
>>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is
>> absolutely
>>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>>
>>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus
>> have
>>> to
>>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>>> green
>>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>>
>>>> John Grehan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Thomson
>>>
>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>> Brasil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>> ORCID:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>>> Lattes: *
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>> Skype: Faendalimas
>>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=W9i2USMyj88OX2xNbcaE624vfaaGjtHGyqpmCRw9srw%3D&reserved=0
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> *******************************************************
>>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>>> * University of Alberta *
>>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> *
>>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>>> *
>>> *******************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> John
>>> *******************************************************
>>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>>> * University of Alberta *
>>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> *
>>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>> *
>>> *******************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> John
>>> *******************************************************
>>> * Mr. John C. Bruner *
>>> * Department of Biological Sciences *
>>> * University of Alberta *
>>> * Edmonton, Alberta _______/////____/~~)_____/==== *
>>> * T6G 2E9 CANADA /_ @ > />...w...w...w.....==== *
>>> * (780) 492-5408 \ ______________,_________ ==== *
>>> * FAX: (780) 492-9234 \> \> \==== *
>>> * VIRTUAL FAX: (780) 492-2216 *
>>> * EMAIL: jbruner at ualberta.ca
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebmail.ualberta.ca%2Fimp%2Fmessage.php%3Fmailbox%3Dsent-mail%26index%3D1363%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sZbgKVR3iw9nyPh%2BdleuKo5fksZaKbv3xw%2FILq94J5M%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> *
>>> * HOME PAGE:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F~jbruner%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=sTaf3y5mv4xw64j0R%2B84IDRKJWGTv5LhNEukhbiah4k%3D&reserved=0
>> *
>>> *******************************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Thomson
>>
>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> Brasil
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> Skype: Faendalimas
>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 12:06:07 +0800
>> From: David Redei <david.redei at gmail.com>
>> To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAGA-UB=
>> OpV6eJTuBNZfrDxuEr0+fpKw+fWPHtvSRk2yP+Cer6Q at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Is there any adjective which cannot be nominalized (= treated as a noun)?
>> Like magnificus = magnificent [adjective] --> "the magnificent one / the
>> magnificent person" or even "the person called Magnificus" [noun]. Just
>> like in English, "increase tax for the rich!", where "rich" is in fact a
>> noun, meaning "the rich persons".
>>
>> In Psalm 13 of the Vulgata (Psalm 14 in King James), the well-known passage
>> goes like: "Dixit insipiens in corde suo: non est Deus". If you look it up
>> in a dictionary you will see that insipiens is an adjective meaning
>> "foolish":
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2Finsipiens&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DL88LKeSeqj2t1XOUeFWNQJwYMokozfquyrlFI7DN40%3D&reserved=0
>> , and it is true, it is
>> very commonly used as an adjective, you can form its superlative as
>> "insipientissimus" etc. But in the above sentence it is nominalized = it is
>> used as a noun (note "suo" in the same sentence!), meaning "the foolish
>> one" or "the fool".
>>
>> Whether a word is an adjective or a noun is not an inherent attribute of
>> the word itself (as a lexical entry), but it rather indicates how the word
>> functions grammatically *in a given sentence*. ICZN says that the name must
>> be TREATED as a noun, and along the above lines pretty much any adjective
>> (more precisely, any word which can take the function of an adjective in a
>> sentence) can be TREATED as a noun. So do not worry too much about it,
>> John.
>>
>> With best wishes,
>>
>> David Redei
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 00:02:43 -0500
>> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> To: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <CADN0ud1YmC-YQHyOV3gWX=
>> GpaProoWLooqdPputOryNiJuORnA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> My appreciation to Scott, Stephen, and everyone else who provided input on
>> this question. I feel a lot happier that there was pretty much consensus,
>> or almost so, for accepting Magnificus as valid. Very glad that there is no
>> imperative to change it. Sometimes tability is a good thing.
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 4:38 PM Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be one,
>>> I am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything
>> else
>>> is fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>
>>> Cheers Scott
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>>
>>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or more
>>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative
>> singular.
>>>> TREATED AS
>>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the name
>>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>> name
>>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>>>> allusion
>>>> to this aspect).
>>>>
>>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>>> following comments:
>>>>
>>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed
>> up
>>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>>
>>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>>
>>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>>
>>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>> are
>>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>>
>>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>> are
>>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared
>> in
>>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like Rumblustumblus
>>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>>>> name:
>>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>>
>>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>>>> In
>>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>>
>>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is absolutely
>>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>>
>>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus have
>>>> to
>>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>>>> green
>>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>>
>>>> John Grehan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Thomson
>>>
>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>> Brasil
>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Skype: Faendalimas
>>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 00:24:34 -0500
>> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> To: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <CADN0ud30G2FyuUQm56_idvy-AGFTpw=
>> Z2UbfHMWYz5ftMtdVdQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Amending my initial comment - after going over all the commentary in more
>> detail I realize that there was indeed consensus about the validity of
>> Magnificus. Disagreements were over associated issues. After having already
>> published a revision of Magnificus I am very happy that there is no need to
>> change the name!
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 12:02 AM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My appreciation to Scott, Stephen, and everyone else who provided input
>> on
>>> this question. I feel a lot happier that there was pretty much consensus,
>>> or almost so, for accepting Magnificus as valid. Very glad that there is
>> no
>>> imperative to change it. Sometimes tability is a good thing.
>>>
>>> Cheers, John
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 4:38 PM Scott Thomson <
>> scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be
>> one,
>>>> I am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything
>> else
>>>> is fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Scott
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>>>
>>>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or
>> more
>>>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative
>> singular.
>>>>> TREATED AS
>>>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the
>> name
>>>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>>>>> name
>>>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>>>>> allusion
>>>>> to this aspect).
>>>>>
>>>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>>>> following comments:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed
>> up
>>>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>>>
>>>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>>>>> are
>>>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>>>
>>>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>>>>> are
>>>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared
>> in
>>>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like
>> Rumblustumblus
>>>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>>>>> name:
>>>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>>>
>>>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>>>>> In
>>>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is
>> absolutely
>>>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus
>> have
>>>>> to
>>>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>>>>> green
>>>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>>>
>>>>> John Grehan
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>>
>>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=stgGJwr7iKsK6hHwn3kEmOniPTjDxSGEK1zbSmjkqw0%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Scott Thomson
>>>>
>>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>>> Brasil
>>>>
>>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DzXuWAFW5lKDKnLsewttaSOlYSzncmZ965coBetpSr0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> ORCID:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=o7XOrk7iFFelCcI6QtIZKMJHepgUH0jw8cR2xUYp8C0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Lattes: *
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OMJTrTOboA%2BYRzhiknrE5Ts896o9bV7YGd7zoscsfbc%3D&reserved=0
>>>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=N8%2F9VSdeZw6s%2F70%2BooI0m07TuKM340as5PQWLkE%2Bims%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>> Skype: Faendalimas
>>>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=W9i2USMyj88OX2xNbcaE624vfaaGjtHGyqpmCRw9srw%3D&reserved=0
>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Taxacom Digest, Vol 189, Issue 12
>> ****************************************
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 11:49:48 -0500
>> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> To: "Beach, James H." <beach at ku.edu>
>> Cc: TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom Genus name question
>> Message-ID:
>> <CADN0ud0uyd4hP8S2_YihXStOiUr3CDKtzuHqT=_pcD=
>> JpC3ihQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> It beats 'Your Lordship'. PS - I forgot to credit John Turner (UK
>> entomologist and ghost moth collaborator) for raising this issue with me
>> and permitting posting of his comments). Cheers, John
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 10:34 AM Beach, James H. via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> So that is what this spurt was all about! Pretty clever.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> James H. Beach
>>> Biodiversity Institute
>>> University of Kansas
>>> 1345 Jayhawk Blvd.
>>> Lawrence, KS 66045
>>> Cell: 1 785 331-8508
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of John Grehan
>> via
>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022, 12:22 AM
>>> To: Stephen Thorpe
>>> Cc: TAXACOM
>>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Taxacom| Genus name question
>>>
>>> Ha ha! From now on just call me 'Your Magnificence'. :)
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 1:05 AM Stephen Thorpe <
>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A magnificent result, John (or perhaps a result exhibiting
>> magnificence!)
>>>> Stephen
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 06:25:14 pm NZDT, John Grehan <
>>>> calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amending my initial comment - after going over all the commentary in
>> more
>>>> detail I realize that there was indeed consensus about the validity of
>>>> Magnificus. Disagreements were over associated issues. After having
>>> already
>>>> published a revision of Magnificus I am very happy that there is no
>> need
>>> to
>>>> change the name!
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 12:02 AM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My appreciation to Scott, Stephen, and everyone else who provided input
>>> on
>>>> this question. I feel a lot happier that there was pretty much
>> consensus,
>>>> or almost so, for accepting Magnificus as valid. Very glad that there
>> is
>>> no
>>>> imperative to change it. Sometimes tability is a good thing.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, John
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 4:38 PM Scott Thomson <
>>> scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes I agree with Stephen here, treated as a noun does not have to be
>> one,
>>>> I am no fan of destroying names over some poor grammar, if everything
>>> else
>>>> is fine with the name it should not matter it's usable.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Scott
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 6:32 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
>>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.8. Genus-group names
>>>>
>>>> A genus-group name (see also Article 10.3) must be a word of two or
>> more
>>>> letters and must be, or be treated as, a noun in the nominative
>> singular.
>>>> TREATED AS
>>>> On Saturday, 22 January 2022, 10:11:11 am NZDT, John Grehan via
>>>> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested to have input on judging the validity of the
>> name
>>>> 'Magnificus' which was proposed by a Chinese worker back in 2000 for a
>>>> genus of Hepialidae. The author made no reference to the basis of the
>>> name
>>>> (although the moths are quite nice looking and so perhaps it is an
>>> allusion
>>>> to this aspect).
>>>>
>>>> Under current rules, is the name valid? I had a colleague make the
>>>> following comments:
>>>>
>>>> "The problem seems to centre on the use by taxonomists of eighteenth
>>>> century "modern" Latin, as used for learned discourse, all a bit mixed
>> up
>>>> with medieval liturgical Latin from the Roman church.
>>>>
>>>> In these branches of Latin it seems likely that as in classical Latin,
>>>> magnficus is not a noun.
>>>>
>>>> So I can see two "legal" positions, from the ICZN point of view.
>>>>
>>>> Generic names must be nouns. Magnificus is not by any stretch of
>>>> imagination a noun. As a generic name it is therefore invalid.
>>>> Magnificus has appeared in the lit as a generic name. As generic names
>>> are
>>>> nouns, this act has by definition converted Magnificus into a noun for
>>>> taxonomic usages.
>>>>
>>>> If this ([2]) sounds a bit stretched, consider that many generic names
>>> are
>>>> purely artificial. They were not nouns or anything until they appeared
>> in
>>>> the biological literature. So I could make up a name like
>> Rumblustumblus
>>>> (Rumble us, tumble us). It's hard to maintain that it's not a generic
>>> name:
>>>> for biological purposes it's now a noun!
>>>>
>>>> The literature is full of prank names, most of them of course specific.
>>> In
>>>> fact various kinds of pranking go all the way back to Linnaeus)."
>>>>
>>>> I hope (wish) to get sufficient clarity to determine if it is
>> absolutely
>>>> necessary to replace the Magnificus' name or not.
>>>>
>>>> Also, why was the rule made that the original word used for a genus
>> have
>>> to
>>>> be a noun? In that respect there is a name 'Viridigigas" but neither
>>> green
>>>> or giant are nouns as such. But what do I know?
>>>>
>>>> John Grehan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>> http://lists.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>> http://lists.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845355383%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Kc5ayXeD1EwSAxBJ9EVnMDquH%2FNqbZoD5hSr%2FKzO6Rk%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years,
>> 1987-2022.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Scott Thomson
>>>>
>>>> Centro de Estudos dos Quel?nios da Amaz?nia - CEQUA
>>>> Petr?polis, Manaus
>>>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>>> Brasil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=uFi%2F3B3cEvCANc2W31800PC8MWbe6%2BSzQE2qXwh7oqY%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=uFi%2F3B3cEvCANc2W31800PC8MWbe6%2BSzQE2qXwh7oqY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> ORCID:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=CCZSclqJzeLQigGa4DsGXVPdsMWH1aew3B8UN%2FYVWkM%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=CCZSclqJzeLQigGa4DsGXVPdsMWH1aew3B8UN%2FYVWkM%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Lattes: *
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZBO0XXu9WEPmeM2RHF68hja6PX1ghTLYgwZIKNRhiZ0%3D&reserved=0
>>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=yatc7Z7wfyZCUNsurX7N3TmC4iptqG3z%2F025IQQzekM%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=yatc7Z7wfyZCUNsurX7N3TmC4iptqG3z%2F025IQQzekM%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>> Skype: Faendalimas
>>>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Yo6oo4q9YcXNzJK7rqPCqsUSVL6fg8hve2YlqeOZqFs%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Yo6oo4q9YcXNzJK7rqPCqsUSVL6fg8hve2YlqeOZqFs%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>
>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Yo6oo4q9YcXNzJK7rqPCqsUSVL6fg8hve2YlqeOZqFs%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Yo6oo4q9YcXNzJK7rqPCqsUSVL6fg8hve2YlqeOZqFs%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Taxacom Digest, Vol 189, Issue 13
>> ****************************************
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit: https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C960d60648bc848a4f42808d9dde6fe60%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637784807845511681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Yo6oo4q9YcXNzJK7rqPCqsUSVL6fg8hve2YlqeOZqFs%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>
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