[Taxacom] GENERAL CALL TO BATTLE

Fri Feb 12 12:38:55 CST 2021

After so many emails I lose track, but my recollection was that the
original criticism was directed to choices (correctly or incorrectly made)
made by others over nomenclature or taxonomy. While these may be offensive
in the sense that that criticism of particular approaches may be seen to be
offensive, that is inevitable in sciences as one's characterization may not
not correspond to someone else's. As far as I recallect, Carlos did not say
anything personally offensive about the individuals concerned (calling them
stupid, idiots, shysters, etc.). By way of comparison, I have called the
misrepresentation of fossil calibrated divergence ages as 'twaddle' and
while that characterization is offensive to some, it is based on an
argument about evidence which is independent of whether one considers the
viewpoint offensive or not. But I am not saying anything about the
individuals involved, just their work. Just as some characterize
panbiogeography as creationism - which I may not like but it's an attack on
the research program, not on individuals and so I am not offended. Just
disagree strongly. So, regardless of agreement or not with Carlos' views,
his concerns will either succeed or not according to how others see their
merits - which is more or less what Stephen pointed out.

Cheers, John Grehan

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 1:11 PM Michael A. Ivie via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> LOL, you think I worry about offending you?   After what offensive
> comments you are throwing out, that is not an issue.  As for untrue
> statements, read responses from others, there are several. Especially
> see Martin's message
>
> > "What inflammatory rhetoric is: Claiming that 15 species are new when
> > they have not been diagnosed from 51 previous species."
> >
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > Sharkey et al. (2021) reply to this accusation on p. 6-7:
> >
> > 1. “The method ignores previously described species”
> I do not believe you can document a single person involved in any of
> this that is "people burning all science around them because they care
> ZERO for who is coming after."  Another example of untrue statements.
>
> Mike
>
> On 2/12/2021 11:03 AM, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz wrote:
> > Mike,
> > In case that you felt so touched by "Of course, there will be many who
> > are at the end of their careers, who won't care about integrative
> > taxonomy" that you had to write all those kind words, please note that
> > mine were not directed towards you. Now, if you think that there are
> > no people burning all science around them because they care ZERO for
> > who is coming after, you are wrong. Those people definitely exist, and
> > towards them I directed my comment. I hope that is not your case.
> > Now, if you may enlighten me on what you call "untrue statements",
> > please do so. Otherwise keep your rage against me to yourself and
> > refrain from offending me.
> > Cheers,
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > Finland
> > Myriatrix
> > <
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a04a66e9ed34f28b61908d8cf808b88%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637487498743001595%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=uq7eIqv70hhkqCIfM79OtSynzbKilrNDBO81BVckaAM%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > ResearchGate profile
> > <
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a04a66e9ed34f28b61908d8cf808b88%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637487498743011586%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZCLeA0%2FK13czmQRVthvhfOrKP2V2L0%2FiLS3Yru1%2FZ1w%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > <
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a04a66e9ed34f28b61908d8cf808b88%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637487498743011586%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=jOW5NSxthYTBLfjIaS3LnfvD0hfsi9JibcfoBf3JAA0%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > El vie, 12 feb 2021 a las 18:54, Michael A. Ivie (<mivie at montana.edu
> > <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>>) escribió:
> >
> >     Carlos,
> >
> >     Your ageism and aggressive holier-than-thou approach will simply
> >     place you as a noisy sideliner, with no leadership role in the
> >     future, zero respect and less influence.  Your willingness to make
> >     untrue statements to fire people to your side are not doing you
> >     nor your cause any good.  If you want to have a role, stop this
> >     crap.  The statement below shows you to be totally out of touch
> >     with reality. Just stop raging and do something useful.
> >     Otherwise, maybe go to Florida and work for Trump, he likes your
> >     sort of approach.
> >
> >     Mike
> >
> >     On 2/12/2021 6:54 AM, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz wrote:
> >>     Of course, there will be many who are at the end of their
> >>     careers, who won't care about integrative taxonomy
> >
> >     --
> >     __________________________________________________
> >
> >     Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> >
> >     NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
> >
> >     US Post Office Address:
> >     Montana Entomology Collection
> >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
> >     PO Box 173145
> >     Montana State University
> >     Bozeman, MT 59717
> >     USA
> >
> >     UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> >     Montana Entomology Collection
> >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
> >     1911 West Lincoln Street
> >     Montana State University
> >     Bozeman, MT 59718
> >     USA
> >
> >
> >     (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> >     (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> >     mivie at montana.edu  <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>
> >
> --
> __________________________________________________
>
> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
> NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>
> US Post Office Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> PO Box 173145
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> USA
>
> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59718
> USA
>
>
> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> mivie at montana.edu
>
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