[Taxacom] GENERAL CALL TO BATTLE

Mon Feb 15 05:14:58 CST 2021

 Raymond,
You have serious problems understanding English. I wrote: "In case that you
missed it, the first thing that a taxonomist thinks when s/he reads your
name is "taxonomic vandal"."
I didn't call you taxonomic vandal. That you did to yourself. And I again
remind you that it was you who falsely accused Zootaxa, to the global
ResearchGate audience, of not conducting peer-review.
For the sake of animal welfare, please do not bite any of your snakes. It
will certainly die from envenomation.
Cheers!

Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
FI-20014 University of Turku
Finland
Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
ResearchGate profile
<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>

El sáb, 13 feb 2021 a las 3:35, Raymond Hoser - The Snakeman (<
viper007 at live.com.au>) escribió:

> Michael, you wrote
>
> "As far as I recallect, Carlos did not say
> anything personally offensive about the individuals concerned (calling them
> stupid, idiots, shysters, etc.). "
>
> In case you missed it, he falsely accused me to a global audience of being
> a taxonomic vandal.
> He would not have made this false accusation had he done the correct thing
> and read the primary literature.
> You may wish to read his posts a little closer in future.
> Thanks
> Raymond Hoser
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of John
> Grehan via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> *Sent:* Saturday, 13 February 2021 5:38 AM
> *To:* Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
> *Cc:* Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>; Carlos Alberto Martínez
> Muñoz <biotemail at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Taxacom] GENERAL CALL TO BATTLE
>
> After so many emails I lose track, but my recollection was that the
> original criticism was directed to choices (correctly or incorrectly made)
> made by others over nomenclature or taxonomy. While these may be offensive
> in the sense that that criticism of particular approaches may be seen to be
> offensive, that is inevitable in sciences as one's characterization may not
> not correspond to someone else's. As far as I recallect, Carlos did not say
> anything personally offensive about the individuals concerned (calling them
> stupid, idiots, shysters, etc.). By way of comparison, I have called the
> misrepresentation of fossil calibrated divergence ages as 'twaddle' and
> while that characterization is offensive to some, it is based on an
> argument about evidence which is independent of whether one considers the
> viewpoint offensive or not. But I am not saying anything about the
> individuals involved, just their work. Just as some characterize
> panbiogeography as creationism - which I may not like but it's an attack on
> the research program, not on individuals and so I am not offended. Just
> disagree strongly. So, regardless of agreement or not with Carlos' views,
> his concerns will either succeed or not according to how others see their
> merits - which is more or less what Stephen pointed out.
>
> Cheers, John Grehan
>
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 1:11 PM Michael A. Ivie via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > LOL, you think I worry about offending you?   After what offensive
> > comments you are throwing out, that is not an issue.  As for untrue
> > statements, read responses from others, there are several. Especially
> > see Martin's message
> >
> > > "What inflammatory rhetoric is: Claiming that 15 species are new when
> > > they have not been diagnosed from 51 previous species."
> > >
> > > Hi Carlos,
> > >
> > > Sharkey et al. (2021) reply to this accusation on p. 6-7:
> > >
> > > 1. “The method ignores previously described species”
> > I do not believe you can document a single person involved in any of
> > this that is "people burning all science around them because they care
> > ZERO for who is coming after."  Another example of untrue statements.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 2/12/2021 11:03 AM, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz wrote:
> > > Mike,
> > > In case that you felt so touched by "Of course, there will be many who
> > > are at the end of their careers, who won't care about integrative
> > > taxonomy" that you had to write all those kind words, please note that
> > > mine were not directed towards you. Now, if you think that there are
> > > no people burning all science around them because they care ZERO for
> > > who is coming after, you are wrong. Those people definitely exist, and
> > > towards them I directed my comment. I hope that is not your case.
> > > Now, if you may enlighten me on what you call "untrue statements",
> > > please do so. Otherwise keep your rage against me to yourself and
> > > refrain from offending me.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Carlos
> > >
> > >
> > > Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> > > Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> > > FI-20014 University of Turku
> > > Finland
> > > Myriatrix
> > > <
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a04a66e9ed34f28b61908d8cf808b88%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637487498743001595%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=uq7eIqv70hhkqCIfM79OtSynzbKilrNDBO81BVckaAM%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > ResearchGate profile
> > > <
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a04a66e9ed34f28b61908d8cf808b88%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637487498743011586%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZCLeA0%2FK13czmQRVthvhfOrKP2V2L0%2FiLS3Yru1%2FZ1w%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> > > <
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a04a66e9ed34f28b61908d8cf808b88%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637487498743011586%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=jOW5NSxthYTBLfjIaS3LnfvD0hfsi9JibcfoBf3JAA0%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > El vie, 12 feb 2021 a las 18:54, Michael A. Ivie (<mivie at montana.edu
> > > <mailto:mivie at montana.edu <mivie at montana.edu>>>) escribió:
> > >
> > >     Carlos,
> > >
> > >     Your ageism and aggressive holier-than-thou approach will simply
> > >     place you as a noisy sideliner, with no leadership role in the
> > >     future, zero respect and less influence.  Your willingness to make
> > >     untrue statements to fire people to your side are not doing you
> > >     nor your cause any good.  If you want to have a role, stop this
> > >     crap.  The statement below shows you to be totally out of touch
> > >     with reality. Just stop raging and do something useful.
> > >     Otherwise, maybe go to Florida and work for Trump, he likes your
> > >     sort of approach.
> > >
> > >     Mike
> > >
> > >     On 2/12/2021 6:54 AM, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz wrote:
> > >>     Of course, there will be many who are at the end of their
> > >>     careers, who won't care about integrative taxonomy
> > >
> > >     --
> > >     __________________________________________________
> > >
> > >     Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> > >
> > >     NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
> > >
> > >     US Post Office Address:
> > >     Montana Entomology Collection
> > >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > >     PO Box 173145
> > >     Montana State University
> > >     Bozeman, MT 59717
> > >     USA
> > >
> > >     UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> > >     Montana Entomology Collection
> > >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > >     1911 West Lincoln Street
> > >     Montana State University
> > >     Bozeman, MT 59718
> > >     USA
> > >
> > >
> > >     (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> > >     (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> > >     mivie at montana.edu  <mailto:mivie at montana.edu <mivie at montana.edu>>
> > >
> > --
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> > Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> >
> > NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
> >
> > US Post Office Address:
> > Montana Entomology Collection
> > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > PO Box 173145
> > Montana State University
> > Bozeman, MT 59717
> > USA
> >
> > UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> > Montana Entomology Collection
> > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > 1911 West Lincoln Street
> > Montana State University
> > Bozeman, MT 59718
> > USA
> >
> >
> > (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> > (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> > mivie at montana.edu
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> 1987-2021.
> >
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> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
>