[Taxacom] Type species from unavailable genus name

Francisco Welter-Schultes fwelter at gwdg.de
Sat May 12 17:39:21 CDT 2018


Absolutely, Stephen. I did not intend to oppose to that point.

-----
Francisco

Am 13.05.2018 um 00:35 schrieb Stephen Thorpe:
> Francisco,
> Yes, but there are other scenarios, e.g. genus A is validated with a type species which is not congeneric with that of genus B. At any rate, my point was that even if A remains unavailable, it would be a better idea to validate it in preference to proposing B. Otherwise a perfectly good name (A) falls out of the system.
> Stephen
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 13/5/18, Francisco Welter-Schultes <fwelter at gwdg.de> wrote:
> 
>   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Type species from unavailable genus name
>   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   Received: Sunday, 13 May, 2018, 10:27 AM
>   
>   There are many records in the
>   literature for genus A. If genus A was
>   unavailable from the 1968 paper, the next
>   occasion after 1968 and before
>   2000 must be
>   found where genus A was mentioned with a short description
>   
>   and with one single species included. This
>   would have made genus A
>   available at that
>   occasion (type fixation by monotypy), with a different
>   author and a slightly later date. And hopefully
>   without a spelling error...
>   
>   Only if all such candidate publications were
>   checked and none was among
>   them that
>   unintentionally made the genus A name available, then a
>   genus
>   B can be established.
>   
>   Cheers
>   Francisco
>   
>   Am
>   13.05.2018 um 00:16 schrieb Stephen Thorpe:
>   > OK, if that was the question, then I agree
>   with Laurent's answer. I read it as Mikhail intended to
>   propose genus B himself. However, my comment still stands
>   that whoever proposed genus B would have been wiser to
>   validate genus A instead!
>   > Stephen
>   >
>   >
>   --------------------------------------------
>   > On Sat, 12/5/18, Laurent Raty <l.raty at skynet.be>
>   wrote:
>   >
>   >
>   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Type species from unavailable genus
>   name
>   >   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   >   Received: Saturday, 12 May, 2018, 9:36
>   PM
>   >
>   >   Is
>   Mikhail's question really
>   >
>   understood as he meant it...?
>   >
>   Perhaps
>   >   I'm the one who is
>   misreading it, but I don't think
>   >
>   the question
>   >   was about valid names,
>   or the
>   >   intended introduction of any
>   new generic
>   >   name. I would understand
>   the question as:
>   >
>   >   What is the correct way to
>   >   cite the type species of a genus
>   (here,
>   >   "genus B", type
>   species fixed by
>   >   monotypy -- i.e.,
>   presumably simply
>   >   originally
>   included in B as "B
>   >
>   somespecies"), when said type species was
>   >   established in combination with a
>   generic name
>   >   ("genus A")
>   that was
>   >   unavailable...?
>   >
>   >   (I would go
>   with "A somespecies
>   >
>   Originalauthor, Year", in agreement with
>   >   Rec. 67B. Even though "A" has
>   (or
>   >   had) no nomenclatural
>   standing.)
>   >
>   >
>   Cheers, L -
>   >
>   >
>   
>   >   On 05/12/2018 12:31 AM, Neal
>   >   Evenhuis wrote:
>   >
>   > I searched Google
>   >   Scholar and
>   there are over 50,000 hits for "Genus
>   >   A", so it has indeed been used
>   quite a bit….
>   >   >
>   >   > ;-)
>   >
>   >
>   >   >
>   >
>   > Neal L. Evenhuis, PhD.
>   >   >
>   Senior Entomologist
>   >   >
>   >
>   >   > Bernice
>   Pauahi Bishop Museum
>   >   > 1525
>   Bernice Street, Honolulu, HI
>   >
>   96817-2704
>   >   > Office: (808)
>   848-4138
>   >   > Fax: (808) 847-8252
>   >   >
>   >
>   BishopMuseum.org<www.bishopmuseum.org>
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   > On Stardate 5/11/18, 12:24 PM,
>   >   Star-trooper "Taxacom on behalf of
>   Stephen Thorpe"
>   >   <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>   >   on behalf of stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>
>   >   wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > The
>   >
>   unavailability of genus A is not fixed forever! The name
>   >   should be validated (which effectively
>   means used as new
>   >   again) before any
>   alternative new generic names are
>   >
>   introduced for any of the included species!
>   >   > Cheers,
>   >
>   > Stephen
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >
>   --------------------------------------------
>   >   > On Sat, 12/5/18, Mikhail Daneliya
>   <mdaneliya at gmail.com<mailto:mdaneliya at gmail.com>>
>   >   wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > Subject:
>   >
>   [Taxacom] Type species from unavailable genus name
>   >   > To: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>   >   > Received: Saturday, 12 May, 2018,
>   1:40
>   >   AM
>   >   >
>   Genus A was described for two
>   >
>   species after
>   >   > 1931, but type
>   species
>   >   was not
>   >   > designated. The genus name A is
>   >   thus
>   >   >
>   unavailable. Despite that more
>   >
>   species
>   >   > under genus name A have
>   been
>   >   described
>   >   > subsequently. One of them
>   >   seems to
>   >   >
>   be a new genus B, with a type
>   >
>   species
>   >   > by monotypy. What is
>   the
>   >   correct name
>   >   > for the type species? A.
>   >   somespecies
>   >
>   > Originalauthor, Year; B.
>   >
>   somespecies
>   >   > (Originalauthor,
>   Year); or
>   >   else?
>   >   > Appreciate your help!
>   >   > Mikhail Daneliya
>   >   >
>   >
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