[Taxacom] Type species from unavailable genus name

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Sat May 12 17:35:34 CDT 2018


Francisco,
Yes, but there are other scenarios, e.g. genus A is validated with a type species which is not congeneric with that of genus B. At any rate, my point was that even if A remains unavailable, it would be a better idea to validate it in preference to proposing B. Otherwise a perfectly good name (A) falls out of the system.
Stephen
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 13/5/18, Francisco Welter-Schultes <fwelter at gwdg.de> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Type species from unavailable genus name
 To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 Received: Sunday, 13 May, 2018, 10:27 AM
 
 There are many records in the
 literature for genus A. If genus A was 
 unavailable from the 1968 paper, the next
 occasion after 1968 and before 
 2000 must be
 found where genus A was mentioned with a short description
 
 and with one single species included. This
 would have made genus A 
 available at that
 occasion (type fixation by monotypy), with a different 
 author and a slightly later date. And hopefully
 without a spelling error...
 
 Only if all such candidate publications were
 checked and none was among 
 them that
 unintentionally made the genus A name available, then a
 genus 
 B can be established.
 
 Cheers
 Francisco
 
 Am
 13.05.2018 um 00:16 schrieb Stephen Thorpe:
 > OK, if that was the question, then I agree
 with Laurent's answer. I read it as Mikhail intended to
 propose genus B himself. However, my comment still stands
 that whoever proposed genus B would have been wiser to
 validate genus A instead!
 > Stephen
 > 
 >
 --------------------------------------------
 > On Sat, 12/5/18, Laurent Raty <l.raty at skynet.be>
 wrote:
 > 
 >  
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Type species from unavailable genus
 name
 >   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   Received: Saturday, 12 May, 2018, 9:36
 PM
 >   
 >   Is
 Mikhail's question really
 >  
 understood as he meant it...?
 >  
 Perhaps
 >   I'm the one who is
 misreading it, but I don't think
 >  
 the question
 >   was about valid names,
 or the
 >   intended introduction of any
 new generic
 >   name. I would understand
 the question as:
 >   
 >   What is the correct way to
 >   cite the type species of a genus
 (here,
 >   "genus B", type
 species fixed by
 >   monotypy -- i.e.,
 presumably simply
 >   originally
 included in B as "B
 >  
 somespecies"), when said type species was
 >   established in combination with a
 generic name
 >   ("genus A")
 that was
 >   unavailable...?
 >   
 >   (I would go
 with "A somespecies
 >  
 Originalauthor, Year", in agreement with
 >   Rec. 67B. Even though "A" has
 (or
 >   had) no nomenclatural
 standing.)
 >   
 >  
 Cheers, L -
 >   
 >  
 
 >   On 05/12/2018 12:31 AM, Neal
 >   Evenhuis wrote:
 >  
 > I searched Google
 >   Scholar and
 there are over 50,000 hits for "Genus
 >   A", so it has indeed been used
 quite a bit….
 >   >
 >   > ;-)
 >  
 >
 >   >
 >  
 > Neal L. Evenhuis, PhD.
 >   >
 Senior Entomologist
 >   >
 >   
 >   > Bernice
 Pauahi Bishop Museum
 >   > 1525
 Bernice Street, Honolulu, HI
 >  
 96817-2704
 >   > Office: (808)
 848-4138
 >   > Fax: (808) 847-8252
 >   >
 >  
 BishopMuseum.org<www.bishopmuseum.org>
 >   >
 >   >
 >   > On Stardate 5/11/18, 12:24 PM,
 >   Star-trooper "Taxacom on behalf of
 Stephen Thorpe"
 >   <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >   on behalf of stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>
 >   wrote:
 >   >
 >   > The
 >  
 unavailability of genus A is not fixed forever! The name
 >   should be validated (which effectively
 means used as new
 >   again) before any
 alternative new generic names are
 >  
 introduced for any of the included species!
 >   > Cheers,
 >  
 > Stephen
 >   >
 >   >
 >  
 --------------------------------------------
 >   > On Sat, 12/5/18, Mikhail Daneliya
 <mdaneliya at gmail.com<mailto:mdaneliya at gmail.com>>
 >   wrote:
 >   >
 >   > Subject:
 >  
 [Taxacom] Type species from unavailable genus name
 >   > To: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >   > Received: Saturday, 12 May, 2018,
 1:40
 >   AM
 >   >
 Genus A was described for two
 >  
 species after
 >   > 1931, but type
 species
 >   was not
 >   > designated. The genus name A is
 >   thus
 >   >
 unavailable. Despite that more
 >  
 species
 >   > under genus name A have
 been
 >   described
 >   > subsequently. One of them
 >   seems to
 >   >
 be a new genus B, with a type
 >  
 species
 >   > by monotypy. What is
 the
 >   correct name
 >   > for the type species? A.
 >   somespecies
 >  
 > Originalauthor, Year; B.
 >  
 somespecies
 >   > (Originalauthor,
 Year); or
 >   else?
 >   > Appreciate your help!
 >   > Mikhail Daneliya
 >   >
 >  
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