Taxacom: no artifical 'intelligence' yet
Tony Rees
tonyrees49 at gmail.com
Wed Feb 5 23:25:53 CST 2025
Of course if AI can locate and sort out 513,923 individual genus names at
this time (including homonyms), the number in IRMNG at time of writing,
then I can fill my time with other activities!! until then...
- Tony
Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752448186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rxOSaN6uNVGV2S%2FN2IyMhU4tMuaL8f0L1Obo7NGCPLE%3D&reserved=0
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irmng.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752465883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Q5en9Y8qgX6lxWftqxRC2tyHPEfGgjfYKFfV%2F7xX06s%3D&reserved=0
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 at 06:42, Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
> At the request of Dilrukshan Wijesinghe, I tried the same requests to
> DeepSeek just now. For the genus *Monilinema* it was maybe 50% correct:
> it new the genus name and placed it in the correct family in Cyanophyceae,
> but got the year of description wrong (says 2013, actually 2020 or 2021)
> and habitat wrong, also said "Monilinema species are often studied for
> their ecological roles, such as their contributions to primary production
> and nutrient cycling in aquatic ecosystems.", which is just plain wrong. On
> Shirburn Castle it was much better than Chat GPT, giving a good overview
> mostly in line with the Wikipedia account (my work), but heavily condensed
> (which is fine). That account reads (if of interest):
> ----------------
>
> *Shirburn Castle* is a historic fortified manor house located in
> *Shirburn*, a village in Oxfordshire, England. It was built in the 14th
> century, around 1377, by *Warine de Lisle*, and it is a fine example of a
> medieval quadrangular castle. The castle features a central courtyard
> surrounded by four ranges of buildings, with towers at each corner, and it
> retains much of its original medieval structure.
>
> Shirburn Castle has a rich history and has been associated with several
> notable families over the centuries. In the 18th century, it became the
> seat of the *Earls of Macclesfield*, who made significant alterations to
> the interior while preserving the castle's exterior appearance. The
> Macclesfield family owned the castle for over 250 years and were known for
> their contributions to science, particularly through the *Parker family*,
> who were avid astronomers and collectors.
>
> The castle is privately owned and not generally open to the public, but it
> remains an important historical and architectural landmark. It is also
> known for its extensive library, which was part of the Macclesfield
> collection and included rare scientific manuscripts and books.
> ----------------
>
> So no issues there.
>
> Just a taster of DeepSeek vs Chat GPT at this time, 2 queries only of
> course!
>
> Regards - Tony
>
> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752478556%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mVCq5Lc5tWO98faG3ZViR1PeZkz4dT7jPnDObjjRAFc%3D&reserved=0
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irmng.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752489817%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hbOsNDnfaBS%2F1DeQnU8oQpTkXsppYC36%2BL7GX0HTCVI%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 at 05:59, Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As an aside from taxonomy, a few years back I did some "research"
>> (information gathering and collation from published sources) on a historic
>> building, Shirburn Castle in Oxfordshire, UK, which I used to update and
>> considerably extend the previously existing Wikipedia entry on the same,
>> see https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FShirburn_Castle&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752500831%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dA0M%2BDIZVV4arj7MXDu23I8bIwaTbUxxzTaohp%2FL9Vw%3D&reserved=0 ... lots of good stuff
>> there now, I would contend, all impeccably sourced. However Chat GPT simply
>> says the following as at today:
>> -----------
>>
>> Shirburn Castle is a historic country house located in Oxfordshire,
>> England, near the village of Shirburn. It dates back to the 14th century
>> and is one of the more well-preserved castles in the region. Over the
>> centuries, it has served various purposes, including as a fortified
>> residence and a seat of nobility.
>>
>> The castle is notable for its impressive architecture, which blends
>> medieval and later periods, with much of the structure reflecting Tudor and
>> Georgian styles. Though not as grand or famous as some other castles in
>> England, Shirburn Castle has an interesting history and has been home to
>> several influential families, most notably the Dunscombe family. In modern
>> times, the estate is privately owned.
>>
>> One of the unique aspects of Shirburn Castle is its location within a
>> beautiful and secluded area of the Oxfordshire countryside, making it a
>> peaceful and picturesque spot. It's also been used as a venue for private
>> events, weddings, and filming due to its atmospheric setting.
>>
>> Shirburn Castle is not typically open to the public, but it is an
>> important part of the local history and offers an example of how English
>> castles evolved over time.
>> -----------
>>
>> Well, no mention of the very famous aspects of Shirburn at all, including
>> its previously fabulous library and collections, seat of the Parker
>> family/Earls of Macclesfield, etc. etc. - just one spurious reference to
>> the Dunscombe family, no connection whatever. So not that impressive in
>> this instance either.... just sayin' !!
>>
>>
>> Regards to all - Tony
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 at 05:40, Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> (Almost) every day I "research" notionally new (to me/my system)
>>> taxonomic names (genera in the main) to see whether they really exist, and
>>> are not some sort of lapsus or database error from elsewhere. This is an
>>> area where AI could be very useful if it saves me trouble - normally I am
>>> using Google Scholar, sector specific databases, occasionally regular
>>> Google or Wikipedia to get other perspectives that I may have missed. Thus
>>> Vlad's first point:
>>>
>>> 1. Taxonomic and Biodiversity Research
>>> *Literature Mining & Data Extraction:*
>>> AI can scan vast amounts of historical and current taxonomic
>>> literature
>>> to extract species descriptions, synonymies, distribution data, and
>>> morphological details. This can help build comprehensive databases and
>>> identify trends or gaps in knowledge.
>>>
>>> I think for the better known names / taxa this is probably true, having
>>> tried out a couple. However possibly not for less well known, or recently
>>> established names. As an example (representative or not) I am up to
>>> checking acritarch genera beginning with "M" in the "John Williams Index of
>>> Palaeopalynology, placed online some time in the past 5 years or so I
>>> believe, where I am up to "Monilinema Yin in Wang, 1984". You can see the
>>> J. Williams record here:
>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikrotax.org%2FAcritax%2FJWIP%2FMonilinema&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752511850%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dubFYKyuEuUjDsW1yhAgUv7hKZ7%2FxpCoHeJ1XIvVX8I%3D&reserved=0 ... in this case
>>> Google knows about this, Google Scholar does not. However Chat GPT does not
>>> either. In fact this is a nomen nudum according to Williams. Now there is
>>> also a more recent genus Monilinema, a freshwater cyanophyte (blue-green
>>> alga) from Brazil, described in 2020 in Journal of Phycology, which is
>>> scarcely an obscure journal. This can be found easily via both Google
>>> Scholar and regular Google; it is also in WoRMS (World Register of Marine
>>> Species) as a freshwater taxon (data from AlgaeBase) although not currently
>>> in Wikipedia. Again, Chat GPT is unaware of this. Chat GPT did, however,
>>> tell me the following:
>>> ------------------
>>> The genus *Monilinema* refers to a group of parasitic nematodes in the
>>> family *Mononchidae*, which are part of the order *Mononchida*. These
>>> nematodes are generally predatory in nature, meaning they feed on other
>>> nematodes and soil microorganisms rather than directly harming plants.
>>> ------------------
>>> which is completely incorrect (there is no genus *Monilinema* in
>>> Nematoda; my own system tells me that the nearest matches there would be
>>> Molinema Freitas & Lent, 1939 accepted as Dipetalonema Diesing, 1861, and
>>> Monilonema Beveridge & Johnson, 1981, neither of which I have presently
>>> classified in Mononchidae (but my classification might be out-of-date).
>>>
>>> So in terms of saving me work, not much use in this instance, although
>>> of course there is always the option for Chat GPT to improve over time...
>>>
>>> Regards - Tony
>>>
>>> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752522730%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PTpSoIlhaullTve8qvRMASn3GnhVOVdy9Ratmm4Rwec%3D&reserved=0
>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irmng.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752533523%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nTdeDS4hAG3lmfFBYkS4QsZyMY6aVKbVf65RSM1szGI%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 5 Feb 2025 at 01:18, Vladimir Blagoderov via Taxacom <
>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's what ChatGPT has to say about the discussion :)
>>>>
>>>> Misconceptions About AI and LLMs in the Discussion
>>>>
>>>> 1.
>>>>
>>>> *AI as “Just a Metaphor” or “BS” Generator*
>>>> - *What’s Said:* John Grehan opens by calling “artificial
>>>> intelligence”
>>>> a metaphor—implying it’s more a marketing construct than a real
>>>> technology—and later labels its output as “BS.”
>>>> - *The Reality:* While current LLMs are not sentient or
>>>> “intelligent”
>>>> in a human sense, they are based on robust statistical models
>>>> that capture
>>>> patterns in vast amounts of text. Their “intelligence” is not the
>>>> same as
>>>> human reasoning but can be extremely useful when its limitations
>>>> are
>>>> understood.
>>>> 2.
>>>>
>>>> *Reliance Solely on Online Sources Makes AI Inherently Unreliable in
>>>> Taxonomy*
>>>> - *What’s Said:* Grehan argues that because many taxonomic articles
>>>> aren’t open access or posted online, the AI’s sources are
>>>> “limited” and
>>>> thus its answers are suspect.
>>>> - *The Reality:* Although LLMs are trained on large, publicly
>>>> available datasets (and may miss some paywalled or less accessible
>>>> literature), researchers are actively developing domain-specific
>>>> models and
>>>> fine-tuning methods that incorporate high-quality, specialized
>>>> data.
>>>> Moreover, even with general models, cross-checking and human
>>>> expertise can
>>>> compensate for gaps.
>>>> 3.
>>>>
>>>> *Inconsistency Equals Incompetence*
>>>> - *What’s Said:* Both John Grehan and Jared Bernard highlight
>>>> inconsistent or contradictory responses (e.g., on whether
>>>> *Magnificus*
>>>> is monophyletic or the origin of panbiogeography) as evidence
>>>> that
>>>> AI “gets things wrong.”
>>>> - *The Reality:* LLMs generate responses probabilistically based
>>>> on
>>>> the prompt and training data. Variations in phrasing or context
>>>> can lead to
>>>> different answers. Inconsistencies underscore the need for
>>>> critical
>>>> evaluation and context-aware querying rather than proving that the
>>>> technology is entirely unreliable.
>>>> 4.
>>>>
>>>> *AI as a Source of Plagiarism and a Threat to Independent Thought*
>>>> - *What’s Said:* Jared Bernard expresses concern that LLMs
>>>> “plagiarize”
>>>> from papers and may foster a generation unable to think for
>>>> itself.
>>>> - *The Reality:* LLMs work by predicting text based on learned
>>>> patterns—they sometimes echo phrases seen in training data
>>>> without proper
>>>> attribution. This is a recognized limitation rather than a
>>>> deliberate act
>>>> of plagiarism. Additionally, when used as an assistive tool
>>>> rather than a
>>>> crutch, AI can augment human creativity and efficiency rather
>>>> than replace
>>>> critical thinking.
>>>> 5.
>>>>
>>>> *Expectation That AI Should Ask Clarifying Questions Like a Human
>>>> Expert*
>>>> - *What’s Said:* John Grehan criticizes the system for not asking
>>>> whether he meant genus or species when he queried “Is Magnificus
>>>> monophyletic?”
>>>> - *The Reality:* Most current LLMs do not automatically ask
>>>> clarifying questions unless specifically designed to do so. They
>>>> instead
>>>> generate the most statistically probable response given the
>>>> prompt.
>>>> Expecting interactive clarification mimics human
>>>> conversation—but it isn’t
>>>> a built‐in feature of many LLMs as they’re typically deployed
>>>> today.
>>>> 6.
>>>>
>>>> *Belief That Advancements Like “Deep Research” Will Replace
>>>> Researchers
>>>> Entirely*
>>>> - *What’s Said:* Jared Bernard mentions that OpenAI’s “Deep Research”
>>>> might eventually replace researchers.
>>>> - *The Reality:* While automation in literature synthesis and data
>>>> analysis is progressing, the goal is to assist and enhance human
>>>> research—not to eliminate the need for critical human judgment
>>>> and domain
>>>> expertise.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Where John Grehan Is Wrong
>>>>
>>>> 1.
>>>>
>>>> *Misunderstanding the Nature of LLM Responses:*
>>>> - *Issue:* Grehan’s criticism that the answer to his query was “BS”
>>>> because it did not clarify the taxonomic level (genus vs. species)
>>>> overlooks the design of LLMs.
>>>> - *Clarification:* LLMs work by predicting likely continuations of
>>>> text. They do not “know” to ask clarifying questions unless
>>>> they’re
>>>> specifically designed or prompted to do so. Expecting an LLM to
>>>> mirror the
>>>> interactive, context-sensitive process of an expert taxonomist
>>>> sets an
>>>> unrealistically high bar for current technology.
>>>> 2.
>>>>
>>>> *Overgeneralizing from Inconsistent Responses:*
>>>> - *Issue:* Grehan cites different responses (one stating
>>>> *Magnificus* is
>>>> polyphyletic, another monophyletic) as proof of AI’s inadequacy.
>>>> - *Clarification:* Variability in output can occur due to
>>>> differences
>>>> in the underlying model version, prompt phrasing, or the
>>>> probabilistic
>>>> nature of text generation. Rather than showing that the
>>>> technology “doesn’t
>>>> work,” such inconsistencies highlight the importance of using AI
>>>> outputs as
>>>> starting points that require expert validation and refinement.
>>>> 3.
>>>>
>>>> *Assuming Limited Data Equals Inherent Unreliability:*
>>>> - *Issue:* Grehan’s assertion that because AI may not access certain
>>>> paywalled or offline articles, its answers are “BS.”
>>>> - *Clarification:* While access to comprehensive data is crucial,
>>>> ongoing efforts in research are aimed at integrating more
>>>> specialized
>>>> datasets into models. Moreover, even imperfect outputs can be
>>>> valuable when
>>>> used in combination with expert oversight.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> How AI Can Be Used in Taxonomic and Biodiversity Research
>>>>
>>>> Despite the concerns raised, AI (and LLMs in particular) holds
>>>> considerable
>>>> promise for enhancing work in taxonomy, species description, and related
>>>> fields. Here are several key applications:
>>>> 1. Taxonomic and Biodiversity Research
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Literature Mining & Data Extraction:*
>>>> AI can scan vast amounts of historical and current taxonomic
>>>> literature
>>>> to extract species descriptions, synonymies, distribution data, and
>>>> morphological details. This can help build comprehensive databases
>>>> and
>>>> identify trends or gaps in knowledge.
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Data Integration:*
>>>> Machine learning algorithms can integrate data from diverse sources
>>>> (e.g., genetic sequences, morphological records, ecological data) to
>>>> provide a more holistic view of biodiversity patterns.
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Species Distribution Modeling:*
>>>> AI-driven geospatial analysis can help predict species distributions
>>>> and
>>>> assess changes over time, which is crucial for conservation planning
>>>> and
>>>> understanding the effects of climate change.
>>>>
>>>> 2. New Species Descriptions
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Drafting Descriptions:*
>>>> LLMs can generate preliminary drafts of species descriptions by
>>>> synthesizing available data. Taxonomists can then refine these
>>>> drafts,
>>>> ensuring adherence to standard nomenclatural protocols.
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Cross-Referencing:*
>>>> Automated tools can compare new findings against existing literature
>>>> to
>>>> help confirm the novelty of a species and avoid redundant
>>>> descriptions.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Taxonomic Monographs
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Compiling and Organizing Data:*
>>>> AI systems can assist in compiling literature, specimen data, and
>>>> previous research findings into structured formats, saving time in
>>>> the
>>>> preparation of comprehensive monographs.
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Automated Consistency Checks:*
>>>> Tools can be designed to check for nomenclatural consistency, verify
>>>> synonymies, and flag discrepancies within large taxonomic
>>>> compilations.
>>>>
>>>> 4. Checklists
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Dynamic Data Aggregation:*
>>>> AI can continuously harvest and integrate data from museums,
>>>> biodiversity databases (like GBIF), and published literature to keep
>>>> species checklists up to date.
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Error Detection & Standardization:*
>>>> Machine learning algorithms can identify potential errors or outdated
>>>> classifications in checklists, prompting updates and ensuring
>>>> consistency
>>>> across databases.
>>>>
>>>> 5. Phylogenetic Research
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Data Analysis and Tree Inference:*
>>>> AI algorithms can process large-scale genetic and morphological
>>>> datasets
>>>> to assist in constructing phylogenetic trees. They can help manage
>>>> the
>>>> computational complexity involved in large datasets.
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Integrating Multiple Data Types:*
>>>> By combining molecular data with morphological and ecological data,
>>>> AI
>>>> can help reconcile discrepancies and suggest more robust phylogenetic
>>>> hypotheses.
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> *Predictive Modeling:*
>>>> Machine learning models can be used to predict evolutionary
>>>> relationships and diversification patterns, offering new hypotheses
>>>> for
>>>> empirical testing.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Conclusion
>>>>
>>>> The concerns expressed in the email chain largely stem from
>>>> misconceptions
>>>> about how AI and LLMs work and what their current limitations are. While
>>>> it’s true that LLMs do not “think” or interact in the nuanced way that
>>>> human experts do, they offer substantial potential to streamline and
>>>> enhance various aspects of taxonomic and biodiversity research. Rather
>>>> than
>>>> replacing experts, AI tools can serve as valuable assistants—automating
>>>> routine tasks, synthesizing large datasets, and even helping draft
>>>> scientific texts—while leaving the critical interpretation and
>>>> decision-making to trained researchers. As the technology continues to
>>>> improve and more domain-specific models are developed, its
>>>> contributions to
>>>> fields like taxonomy are likely to grow even more significant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Vlad
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dr Vladimir Blagoderov, FLS, FRMS
>>>> Principal curator – Invertebrates
>>>>
>>>> National Museums Scotland
>>>>
>>>> Chambers Street
>>>>
>>>> Edinburgh
>>>>
>>>> EH1 1JF
>>>>
>>>> National Museums Collection Centre
>>>>
>>>> 242 West Granton Road
>>>>
>>>> Edinburgh
>>>>
>>>> EH5 1JA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> tel. +44(0)131 247 4261
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> e-mail:
>>>>
>>>> *v.blagoderov at nms.ac.uk <vblagoderov at nms.ac.uk>*
>>>> vblago at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Fungus Gnats Online:
>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciaroidea.info%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752546368%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7FsVxbj7UlSNM3WGXyuHCJk98aTgmyCgrtkJwd04clA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 at 21:28, Dilrukshan Wijesinghe via Taxacom <
>>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Would be interesting to see the results from posing the same real
>>>> > taxonomic questions to the most recent incarnation of OpenAI’s
>>>> product and
>>>> > DeepSeek.
>>>> >
>>>> > Priyantha
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >
>>>> > > On Feb 3, 2025, at 3:41 PM, John Grehan via Taxacom <
>>>> > taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Actually my first question was 'Is Magnificus monophyletic' The
>>>> response
>>>> > > only referenced a species, not the genus (which is what I had in
>>>> mind).
>>>> > > Something truly intelligent (and acquainted with taxonomy) would
>>>> have
>>>> > asked
>>>> > > what taxonomic level, or at least whether genus or species, or even
>>>> gave
>>>> > > both (which ironically is likely to happen if one typed Magnificus
>>>> as a
>>>> > > keyword into a standard Google or equivalent search). I guess
>>>> > > eventually computer programming is going to get sophisticated
>>>> enough to
>>>> > > write entire taxonomic papers - just give the data, or eventually a
>>>> > robotic
>>>> > > computer will also handle all the specimens and dissect, map DNA etc
>>>> > > without anyone being involved at all. Then there will be no human
>>>> > > taxonomists left to read the result. Of course if we're lucky some
>>>> nut
>>>> > will
>>>> > > blow the world up before then.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Cheers, John
>>>> > >
>>>> > >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 3:32 PM Scott Thomson <
>>>> > scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
>>>> > >> wrote:
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Putting on my programmer hat for sec......
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> The AI's are as good as they are taught to be. It takes time to
>>>> "teach"
>>>> > >> them the information. The information being loaded into them is
>>>> also not
>>>> > >> even. Maths and Engineering are first our fields not so much. I
>>>> have
>>>> > >> dabbled every now and then writing prompts to teach ChatGTP
>>>> taxonomic
>>>> > >> information. Remember when asking an AI for information you have
>>>> to run
>>>> > a
>>>> > >> series of prompts to effectively teach it fields it has less
>>>> > information on.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Cheers Scott
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 5:25 PM John Grehan via Taxacom <
>>>> > >> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>> Just goes to show that whatever one might use one might get
>>>> different
>>>> > >>> results.Makes my point.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 3:19 PM Roderic Page via Taxacom <
>>>> > >>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>> Hi John,
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> You might want to try that again. Using ChatGPT 4o I get:
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> "Yes, the genus Magnificus is considered monophyletic. A 2021
>>>> study by
>>>> > >>>> Grehan et al. provided evidence supporting this by identifying
>>>> unique
>>>> > >>>> morphological features shared among species within the genus.
>>>> > >>> Specifically,
>>>> > >>>> they noted a distinctive shape of the ergosterol sclerite in the
>>>> > >>> anterior
>>>> > >>>> abdominal region and a unique pseudoteguminal arm in the male
>>>> > genitalia.
>>>> > >>>> These shared characteristics suggest that all species within the
>>>> genus
>>>> > >>>> Magnificus descend from a common ancestor, supporting its
>>>> monophyly.”
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> The answer includes a link to your paper in PubMed
>>>> > >>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2F33756654%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752558171%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hyHWB5dyf%2BFs7zoVFl98Qa0214ILDUC6h3Fqsh5iBpQ%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Things are moving so fast that I'd resist making sweeping
>>>> > >>> generalisations
>>>> > >>>> just yet...
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Regards,
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Rod
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > >>>> Roderic Page
>>>> > >>>> Professor of Taxonomy
>>>> > >>>> School of Biodiversity, One Health, & Veterinary Medicine
>>>> > >>>> College of Medical, Veterinary and Life Sciences
>>>> > >>>> Graham Kerr Building
>>>> > >>>> University of Glasgow
>>>> > >>>> Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Email: Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:
>>>> Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
>>>> > >>>> LinkedIn: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fuk.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Frdmpage&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752569112%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=n722e4ztG5ReODfhTZpVxLoIk3wSsPjaZKk6pfB2ZpY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >>>> Twitter: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Frdmpage&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752580018%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SWBAnz2BEDF94FgkJwffGj2auvw42OEMlF8JIPxV8tk%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >>>> Telegram: rdmpage
>>>> > >>>> Blog: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiphylo.blogspot.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752590920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8Q8cavp47hR%2B7FGmktJMO1E2PwRdMzLwmXAo96GJGrE%3D&reserved=0<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fiphylo.blogspot.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752601823%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BkYjvaFGKNh3%2B%2BCu%2Bzi7W2V0%2BAawOCjnZAK6%2BBBrBr8%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> > >>>> ORCID: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0002-7101-9767&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752612649%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ymic9TDxowNjaB3OHayU3Y%2Fjpgg8L3akBzDcSL4HsRY%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >>>> Citations:
>>>> > >>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.co.uk%2Fcitations%3Fhl%3Den%26user%3D4Z5WABAAAAAJ&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752623483%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IVmxnODkCWXmXrVT7jZiCpntPMVVmaDVqtMXuraYBG8%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >>>> ResearchGate https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FRoderic_Page&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752635992%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uCMh0dOZofo0gC4PqGDD3JwT%2FnXsuZ6zjuaT4Z61Wss%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >>>> On 3 Feb 2025 at 19:46 +0000, John Grehan via Taxacom <
>>>> > >>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu>, wrote:
>>>> > >>>> I find 'artificial intelligence' to be one of those metaphors
>>>> that is
>>>> > >>> more
>>>> > >>>> about creating a state of reality than reality itself (a bit
>>>> like the
>>>> > >>>> 'barcode' metaphor).
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Just for the heck of it, I asked Chatgpg "is the genus Magnificus
>>>> > >>>> monophyletic?" (this is a genus of ghost moths). Answer: "Based
>>>> on
>>>> > >>> current
>>>> > >>>> research and taxonomic classification, *Magnificus* is *not
>>>> considered
>>>> > >>>> monophyletic*. In fact, it’s generally thought to be
>>>> polyphyletic,
>>>> > >>> meaning
>>>> > >>>> that the species within the genus do not all share a single
>>>> common
>>>> > >>> ancestor
>>>> > >>>> exclusive to that group. They are often found to be more closely
>>>> > >>> related to
>>>> > >>>> species in other genera than to each other."
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> This is about as much BS that anyone could invent. I think it
>>>> shows
>>>> > that
>>>> > >>>> the 'intelligence' of a computer is only as good as its sources.
>>>> I
>>>> > >>> expect
>>>> > >>>> in taxonomy its sources are quite limited - especially if
>>>> articles are
>>>> > >>> not
>>>> > >>>> open access or otherwise posted on the web.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> In another time wasting exercises (relatively speaking I don't
>>>> have
>>>> > that
>>>> > >>>> much time left, so might as well waste some of it :) I asked
>>>> 'what is
>>>> > >>>> panbiogeography' . In one answer I was told that I created
>>>> > >>> panbiogeography,
>>>> > >>>> in another question it was Michael Heads who created it. Of
>>>> course
>>>> > >>> neither
>>>> > >>>> is correct, and I guess 1958 sinks to the bottom of the swamp
>>>> where AI
>>>> > >>> does
>>>> > >>>> not dare to tread.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Is there no hope for civilization?
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Cheers,
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> John Grehan
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> --
>>>> > >>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752647030%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ved6VpA805cCbIk9YRHdVoSKBftwtLqDN6lx%2BClLxCQ%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web
>>>> > site'
>>>> > >>>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > >>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years,
>>>> 1987-2025.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> > >>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>> > >>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> > >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>> > >>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > >>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years,
>>>> 1987-2025.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> > >>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>> > >>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> > >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>> > >>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> --
>>>> > >>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752658853%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uye4x1oEgFPwKoDQrgV%2FdHvuYnu6NX%2Bj8X9A0TFmOUo%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web
>>>> site'
>>>> > >>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>>>> > >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> > >>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years,
>>>> 1987-2025.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> > >>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>> > >>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> > >>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>> > taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> --
>>>> > >> Scott Thomson
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Centro de Estudos dos Quelônios da Amazônia - CEQUA
>>>> > >> Petrópolis, Manaus
>>>> > >> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>>>> > >> Brasil
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.carettochelys.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752670122%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6qq%2BUzf52EBRT3lWn070OKnxcFSKruEH5ZPuQT5wfKs%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >> ORCID: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-1279-2722&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752680986%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=75yN0ilJellbpIpo9FW6V4k61t%2FPuB4a9AdV08kIX2c%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >> Lattes: *https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flattes.cnpq.br%2F0323517916624728*&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752691795%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VNJfxqjkdZNZxpEVgDa6ni7bYMm8iNMKVM4mZh5oQ2Y%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >> <
>>>> >
>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwwws.cnpq.br%2Fcvlattesweb%2FPKG_MENU.menu%3Ff_cod%3D1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD%23&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752704664%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1SqcvZbeOkFsWIZtCgnXaO%2F4%2FWYxKPJlyrWAuRmL1r8%3D&reserved=0
>>>> > >
>>>> > >> Skype: Faendalimas
>>>> > >> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>> > >> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9716621770f846b6bb1908dd466ec10f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638744164752715869%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C40000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ciUzxzMbaCZTqOsHGgn5qwUhrJHhSYIZCSY2wqIenOU%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web
>>>> site'
>>>> > > link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > Taxacom Mailing List
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> > > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>> > https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>> > taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>>>> >
>>>> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
>>>> >
>>>> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>> > https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
>>>>
>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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