Taxacom: Mandatory ending correction after 226 years of wrong usage - the Dasytes case

Mon Feb 3 22:17:38 CST 2025

Thanks, I now have the paper.

On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 7:53 AM Michael Heads <m.j.heads at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd be very grateful if someone can supply a copy of the paper changing
> Dasytes to feminine:
>
> Gimmel, M.L., Mayor, A.J. 2024. Taxonomic overview of world Dasytinae
> (Coleoptera: Melyridae), with emphasis on the North American fauna of the
> subfamily and two newly established tribes. The Coleopterists' Bulletin 78,
> 499-536.
>
> On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 10:18 PM Paul van Rijckevorsel via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>> That seems an overstatement. The ICNafp is quite clear
>> that /Aus albus/ is a name, while the epithet /albus/ by itself
>> has no status whatsoever. This is not a matter of insight, or viewpoint,
>> but of definition.
>>
>> The zoological /Code/ differs in that although it also defines
>> /Aus albus/ as a name, but in addition it defines /albus /(by itself) as
>> a formal name. This means that the zoological
>> /Code/ uses adual system of nomenclature that indeed could be explained
>> better.
>> That the zoological /Aus albus/ is a name should be
>> abundantly clear:
>> 1) various provisions in the zoological /Code/, see for example the
>> Glossary entry of "species name".
>> 2) to take Doug's example: it may be true that "striata,
>> striatus, and striatum are all the same name" but that
>> does not mean that, say, '/Exempstriatus/', '/Exempstriata/'
>> and '/Exempstriatum'/ can be used interchangeably. That
>> is obviously not so: the species name is a separate formal
>> entity.
>> 3) the world at large needs and expects species names that
>> are unambiguous units. The idea that a species should be
>> indicated by a combination of two names appears to be
>> expressly tailored to make the general public actively
>> hate and despise zoological nomenclature. This is creating
>> complexity for the mere sake of making things complex.
>>
>> That there are zoologists who cannot handle the
>> zoological dual system of nomenclature and deny that
>> half of the system even exists is indeed a problem, and
>> quite a fundamental one. It appears to require a rewrite
>> of the /Code/ that substantially reduces the ambiguity and makes it
>> harder for zoologists to believe in non-/Code/- compliant interpretations.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 02/02/2025 13:28, Richard Pyle wrote:
>> > The reason for the different meaning of "stability" between ICZN Code
>> and ICNafp Code is ultimately because of how the word "name" is generally
>> treated differently between practitioners of the two Codes.
>> >
>> > This is not precisely enshrined in the Zoological Code (not sure of the
>> botanical Code), but in my many interactions with both categories of
>> taxonomists, folks in the "afp" camp tend to consider a "name" as the full
>> combination, including precise spelling (hence the tracking of authorships
>> of combinations); whereas many in the "Z" camp think of the "name" as a
>> conceptual object, rather than a precise orthography or combination.
>> >
>> > For example, whereas the "afp" folks might see the name "Aus albus" as
>> one name, many of the "Z" folks would see that as two "names" (one in the
>> genus group, and one in the species group).  But the Z folks are a bit
>> inconsistent on this, as the current Code Glossary provides three
>> definitions for the word "name":
>> >
>> > "(1) (general) A word, or ordered sequence of words, conventionally
>> used to denote and identify a particular entity (e.g. a person, place,
>> object, concept). (2) Equivalent to scientific name (q.v.). (3) An element
>> of the name of a species-group taxon: see generic name, subgeneric name,
>> specific name, subspecific name."
>> >
>> > Number 2 is more or less consistent with the "afp" interpretation, but
>> many (most?) zoologists I know tend to think of it more in the sense of
>> number 3 definition.
>> >
>> > But more to the point, I, and I believe many others, measure
>> "stability" in terms of the *conceptual* name, not in terms of any
>> particular combination or orthography.  As Doug explained, "stability" in
>> this sense, means there is an objective set of rules to determine whether
>> the species-group epithet "bus" has nomenclatural priority over the
>> species-group epithet "cus", such that when the name-bearing type of each
>> of these names is deemed taxonomically conspecific, all workers will
>> consistently select the same epithet (also incorporating objective rules
>> for availability).  By contrast, many (admittedly not all) zoologists would
>> not interpret a change in generic classification (e.g., "Aus bus" to "Mus
>> bus"), or a change in orthography ("bus" when combined with a masculine
>> genus, vs. "ba" when combined with a feminine genus or "bum" when combined
>> with a neuter genus) as "nomenclatural instability") as "instability" in
>> the nomenclatural sense.
>> >
>> > In other words, from the perspective of many zoologists the "stability"
>> that matters is the conceptual name units and their respective
>> availabilities and priorities, rather than any particular combination
>> (=classification) or orthography (=spelling, specific string of characters).
>> >
>> > No doubt some zoologists will disagree with my interpretation above.
>> >
>> > Aloha,
>> > Rich
>> >
>> > Richard L. Pyle, PhD
>> > Director of EXCORE | Senior Curator of Ichthyology | Database
>> Coordinator for Natural Sciences
>> > Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum
>> > 1525 Bernice Street, Honolulu, HI 96817-2704
>> > Office: (808) 848-4115;  Fax: (808) 847-8252
>> > eMail:deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
>> > BishopMuseum.org
>> > Our Mission: Bishop Museum inspires our community and visitors through
>> the exploration and celebration of the extraordinary history, culture, and
>> environment of Hawaiʻi and the Pacific.
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Taxacom<taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Paul van
>> >> Rijckevorsel via Taxacom
>> >> Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 5:44 AM
>> >> To:taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> >> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Mandatory ending correction after 226 years of
>> wrong
>> >> usage - the Dasytes case
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 29/01/2025 23:44, Douglas Yanega via Taxacom wrote:
>> >>> [...] Second, you seem to be using a different definition of stability
>> >>> than what the Code uses. [...] Instability is *when taxonomists
>> >>> disagree* on what name/spelling/variant to use. The Code's concept of
>> >>> stability/instability is more akin to the dichotomy between consensus
>> >>> and dispute, and not the sense of "never changing". Names can change a
>> >>> LOT without creating instability, as long as all taxonomists adopt the
>> >>> changes.
>> >> ***
>> >> If the zoological /Code/ were to mean this by "instability" this would
>> >> represent an extremely unfortunate choice of words, quite unnecessary
>> >> because there is no lack of words which would avoid this ambiguity.
>> >>
>> >> Also, it would be quite counter to the spirit of a /Code/ of
>> nomenclature, in
>> >> general. The purpose of a /Code/ is to govern names (directly), and
>> thereby
>> >> promote consensus among users (that is, indirectly). Not the other way
>> >> round.
>> >>
>> >> It is also contradicted by Principle 4: "... would be destructive of
>> stability or
>> >> universality ..." which clearly accepts stability and universality as
>> two
>> >> separate concepts.
>> >>
>> >> FWIW, under the 'botanical' Code, it is not at all uncommon to conserve
>> >> generic names with a particular gender, so as to avoid changes in
>> endings of
>> >> epithets.
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Taxacom Mailing List
>> >>
>> >> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
>> >>
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>>
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>>
>>
>
> --
> Dunedin, New Zealand.
>
> My books:
>
> *Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
> Raton FL. 2017.
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce3795f15db244d585b6508dd44d2e3dc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638742394739539283%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ABslK6nEvB7vyagYCWqp6qI%2F5x4cy1o%2FXYFhMAtzYBs%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge
> University Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce3795f15db244d585b6508dd44d2e3dc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638742394739557329%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ikC6wwR%2FIqPtpJbZZkDuMpuHc6nJtiT6hF6p6faIXy4%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California
> Press, Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce3795f15db244d585b6508dd44d2e3dc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638742394739570604%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=MvB5mFq8Fvk%2F8jvpMwhwv9ICz6kCrdySF3qhre6Rdj8%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
> New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce3795f15db244d585b6508dd44d2e3dc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638742394739585503%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=92FL%2BPAAQq5l3gmFW5u%2BtB1G%2BW1SZlEwvEJsbyG%2FXEU%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC%26dq%3Dpanbiogeography%26source%3Dgbs_navlinks_s&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce3795f15db244d585b6508dd44d2e3dc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638742394739601930%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G2qP1WW8NV2SzQ19gBmTkMLw5TOfC%2BYrhasYeZJHdOM%3D&reserved=0>
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-- 
Dunedin, New Zealand.

My books:

*Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
Raton FL. 2017.
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce3795f15db244d585b6508dd44d2e3dc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638742394739616055%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sQUdy9bntqhQNV2ogL%2FXAmzwqX7QXrNdUlWCpIzBVFA%3D&reserved=0

*Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce3795f15db244d585b6508dd44d2e3dc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638742394739627828%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iL1P8Mqerl%2FLIXTWdHU0NKfo0KaDfg6z1tY%2BKpWPylI%3D&reserved=0

*Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce3795f15db244d585b6508dd44d2e3dc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638742394739643730%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gjREiZDOFIO314AWS%2FA3PCESYGwCwU3JSDpGrU%2B7OI4%3D&reserved=0

*Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ce3795f15db244d585b6508dd44d2e3dc%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638742394739657110%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Z1LYrpoBIWHqcS6SSsoEH45JGjFlCTCHemOydUqdrA4%3D&reserved=0
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