Taxacom: Marie Tharp

Fri Sep 29 10:50:45 CDT 2023

Heezan may have given 'credit' where due, but one wonders why Tharpe was
not given lead authorship. After all, she appears to have made the
conceptual leap, which was initially dismissed out of hand. But as Heezen
becomes lead author, the trend for historical recognition appears to lean
towards him rather than Tharpe, presumably because he was lead author and
the public conference face.

These days when a student in a research lab makes a discovery they are at
least allowed to be lead author even though the lab head may be responsible
for all the resources that made the discoveries happen [which may be all
that Heezen did in this instance - i.e. Heezen etc did not make the
intellectual insight, or am I wrong about that?]. My impression is that
Tharpe made a discovery that was not obvious to her colleagues when seeing
the same data. That would make her stand out remarkably in the history of
science. It's one thing to be first to recognize something (which is
happenstance) but another to recognize something that others with the same
data can or could not). One might also speculate about her status if she
had been allowed to directly gather 'data' - which I understand that she
could not because the marine crew of the research vessels still lived in
the medieval world where female crew (not passengers) was considered bad
luck.

 And interesting that she apparently stuck to her viewpoint nevertheless
(modern research labs are often like cults, one has to accept the PI belief
system in order to belong, and one has to parrott those beliefs when
publishing or doom one's career prospects [equivalent to cult ostracizing
those who leave or escape]).

All the above is rhetorical, does not require any necessary response. Very
interested to see the comments thus far.

Cheers, John

On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 2:14 AM Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think (with all due respect to John) that he has been reading someone
> advancing the thesis that women's contributions to science are often
> downplayed or downright ignored, however they have picked the wrong example
> to cite in this case. Certainly Heezen himself never minimised Tharp's
> contribution so far as I can find: this from Heezen, 1969,  "The world
> rift system: an introduction to the symposium." *Tectonophysics* 8, no.
> 4-6 (1969): 269-279:
>
> ------------------
> "The World Rift System dominates the ocean and imposes its tectonic fabric
> over half of the earth's surface ... Marie Tharp's discovery, more than
> fifteen years ago, of an essentially continuous tectonically active median
> rift valley in the Atlantic and Indian Oceans (Heezen and Tharp, 1957,
> 1961, 1964, 1968), provided the key and the physiographic case upon which
> previously uncorrelated geophysical and geological evidence from land and
> sea was brought together to form the present unified global pattern no
> known as the World Rift System."
> ------------------
>  - Heezen,1969, p. 269.
>
> So we can certainly credit Bruce Heezen for giving credit where credit is
> due, it seems... (too many "credits", but you know what I mean.)
>
> OK, enough from me on this I am sure!
>
> Regards - Tony
>
>
> On Fri, 29 Sept 2023 at 06:08, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the additional insights Tony. Very interesting. John
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 3:18 PM Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Quite an interesting overview here:
>>> Doel, R.E., Levin, T.J. and Marker, M.K., 2006. Extending modern
>>> cartography to the ocean depths: military patronage, Cold War priorities,
>>> and the Heezen–Tharp mapping project, 1952–1959. *Journal of Historical
>>> Geography*, *32*(3), pp.605-626.
>>>
>>> I believe it makes it clear that Heezen was the senior researcher and
>>> had the drive to acquire all the new data, and Tharp was the cartographer
>>> (initially employed as his assistant) who drew it up and first noticed the
>>> consistent structure of the underwater rift valleys in the mid-Atlantic
>>> Ridge. Their work was published jointly, famously in 1959 as "The
>>> floors of the oceans: I. The North Atlantic" by Heezen, Sharp and Ewing
>>> (Ewing was the lab head I believe) but also earlier as well (Heezen, B. C.
>>> & Tharp, M. 1954. Physiographic diagram of the western North Atlantic.
>>> Bulletin of the Geological Society of America, 65, 1261). It may well be
>>> that Heezen got more credit than Sharp at the time since he had funding to
>>> go to meetings and present their work (also women did not go to sea to
>>> collect data), and/or there was a contemporary tendency to minimise the
>>> contribution of women, but Sharp's name was definitely in there. Since I
>>> was not around at the time - or at least was very young in the 1950s - it
>>> is hard for me to comment further about public perceptions of the day.
>>>
>>> It would also seem that the Heezen–Tharp maps were generally produced
>>> in the context of Heezen's view that the earth was expanding, rather than
>>> being a proof of plate tectonics; that view came later (promulgated by
>>> others I think), but built upon the Heezen–Tharp maps as evidence of
>>> the new/revived theory, now of course the accepted view.
>>>
>>> Just some random thoughts above based on a very brief foray into the
>>> literature as stimulated by your message. John (otherwise not an area of
>>> expertise for me!) I was however interested in Tharp's remarks elsewhere
>>> that she investigated and rejected a number of topics in
>>> geology/geomorphology before settling on cartography, including
>>> micropaleontology (all that boring microscope study) and macropaleontology
>>> (too long to prepare the specimens!!)
>>>
>>> Cheers - Tony
>>>
>>> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C2b13200f3fb34dbee26308dbc103ef33%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638315994872969434%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VhtxTrXIEkrHTs50J9eCYxyiZZ%2BuoubWeWNxTZEYFbg%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 29 Sept 2023 at 04:14, Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not completely un-noticed (now at least):
>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMarie_Tharp&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C2b13200f3fb34dbee26308dbc103ef33%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638315994872969434%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Q9SRfDHmw6Ot%2BbY1g1tF6AeFCpJlx69Dg2mI%2FfA4%2Fjs%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> Regards - Tony
>>>>
>>>> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C2b13200f3fb34dbee26308dbc103ef33%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638315994872969434%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VhtxTrXIEkrHTs50J9eCYxyiZZ%2BuoubWeWNxTZEYFbg%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 29 Sept 2023 at 00:41, John Grehan via Taxacom <
>>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you've never heard of Marie Tharp, then you are not alone. Never
>>>>> heard
>>>>> of her myself before now. In the 'official' histories of plate
>>>>> tectonics
>>>>> the discovery of the mid ocean ridges goes to Heezen, and Ewing, the
>>>>> head
>>>>> of the Lamont lab, who in 1956 published on the discovery of a ridge
>>>>> covering about 40,000 miles of the ocean's floor. Only it was never
>>>>> their
>>>>> discovery, but that of Tharp, who was, of course, not credited for this
>>>>> (and does this not remind you of the double helix scam?). Tharp was
>>>>> given
>>>>> the tedious and detailed task of mapping the ocean seafloor from echo
>>>>> soundings (I guess the men were too important to get their hands on a
>>>>> pencil). "After weeks of looking at the data and plotting the lines,
>>>>> Tharp
>>>>> had noticed a pattern. She had about half a dozen lines running across
>>>>> the
>>>>> ocean, and many had a v-shaped dip in a similar spot, right on top of
>>>>> an
>>>>> underwater mountain chain, the Mid-Atlantic Rift. It looked like a
>>>>> rift.
>>>>> But it couldn't be, Heezen told her, because that would be too much
>>>>> like continental
>>>>> drift
>>>>> <
>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fvideo-earth-tectonic-plates-billion-years-2021-2&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C2b13200f3fb34dbee26308dbc103ef33%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638315994872969434%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tvBLYuPSoMMRp6FGA7%2Bc7mCC5aYqQhQVHQ%2B1tP6%2B3Fw%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> >.
>>>>> He and "almost everyone else at Lamont, and in the United States,
>>>>> thought
>>>>> continental drift was impossible," according to Tharp. It would take
>>>>> Heezen
>>>>> months to accept what he'd dismissed as Tharp's "girl talk."
>>>>>
>>>>> So once again, the  history of science here is so much bs (and
>>>>> ironically b
>>>>> = bull in both noun and adjective). Science is supposed to be about the
>>>>> discovery of knowledge, but all too often it is also about power and
>>>>> suppression. As noted by Derrida, for all knowledge gained, something
>>>>> escapes and is lost. Only in such cases as this the loss is
>>>>> deliberate. At
>>>>> least history can sometimes be revisited. The worry is what continues
>>>>> to go
>>>>> on in the present.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, John
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C2b13200f3fb34dbee26308dbc103ef33%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638315994872969434%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ep%2FpzUWeNNPN1xw%2Bcr0p6FS9gl1f2CuDsjCYZZ1sRZs%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
>>>>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
>>>>> for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C2b13200f3fb34dbee26308dbc103ef33%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638315994872969434%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ep%2FpzUWeNNPN1xw%2Bcr0p6FS9gl1f2CuDsjCYZZ1sRZs%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>>
>

-- 
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link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.