Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re: Removals ofoffending scientific names)

Wed Jun 28 05:48:49 CDT 2023

.......remember the Fungi

Il mer 28 giu 2023, 12:32 Dochterland <hortipes at gmail.com> ha scritto:

> I agree with you Markus. If anything is outdated, it is the division of
> biology in botany and zoology. There are a few problems though, for example
> identical names (Trichia, Pieris…) of which compilations have been
> published earlier in this list.
>
> Jan
>
> > Op 28 jun. 2023, om 12:22 heeft Markus Döring via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> het volgende geschreven:
> >
> > Normally I am just a silent reader of this list. But as a software
> engineer and user of scientific names across all life I find the existence
> of different codes including bacteria and viruses a major obstacle already.
> Splitting them up into even more codes that divert from each other is
> simply a nightmare. There are names that not always fall clearly into one
> code. Moving towards more and more registries of names also does no good.
> There are fossil name registries separate from the rest too. If you think
> gender agreement is a pain for users, why all these siloes?
> >
> > If you want to make taxonomy more accessible to the outside world, work
> towards a single code for all life!
> > In the end the "botanical empire" is just a small town on this planet.
> >
> > Markus
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Markus Döring
> > Lead Developer Catalogue of Life
> > Global Biodiversity Information Facility (GBIF)
> > mdoering at gbif.org
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gbif.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fvhq3%2BQB1jb7dBjvFL8YTATQflQtiGAEEXIfU9nJoNM%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 28. Jun 2023, at 11:30, Alfredo Vizzini via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> it would be even better, but I didn't dare so much. However, the
> important
> >> thing is to become independent from the botanical empire
> >>
> >> Alfredo
> >>
> >> Il mer 28 giu 2023, 11:18 Mary Barkworth <Mary.Barkworth at usu.edu> ha
> >> scritto:
> >>
> >>> Why not a code of their own? They actually do prepared and vote on
> their
> >>> own proposals at their International Mycological Congresses. The
> proposals
> >>> are voted on at a subsequent meeting of the Botanical Congress (not
> renamed
> >>> yet) and I suspect almost no botanist or phycologists argues with their
> >>> recommendations. Indeed, mycologists helped push the ICNafp to accept
> some
> >>> changes that mycologists wanted to adopt for fungi (as traditionally
> >>> interpreted).  Perhaps Zoologists should move.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>> *From:* George Beccaloni <g.beccaloni at gmail.com>
> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2023 12:09 PM
> >>> *To:* Alfredo Vizzini <alfredo.vizzini at unito.it>
> >>> *Cc:* Mary Barkworth <Mary.Barkworth at usu.edu>; taxacom at lists.ku.edu <
> >>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >>> *Subject:* Re: Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re:
> Removals
> >>> ofoffending scientific names)
> >>>
> >>> Would make sense as Fungi are more closely related to animals than to
> >>> plants!
> >>>
> >>> George
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> ****************************************************************************
> >>> *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
> >>> *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
> >>>
> >>> Wallace Correspondence Project: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallaceletters.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EKy8VI4xIJecStlK%2BQQQeMgW1yUZJYzYVwDe57vxlLQ%3D&reserved=0
> >>> Wallace Memorial Fund: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallacefund.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=khvQ8%2FFHZXitgUWHtfaxoTfoE%2FRHsI3pkAShwCSJPf0%3D&reserved=0
> >>> ResearchGate: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FGeorge-Beccaloni-2&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6BZaGLDCrrqf0ctt71LQUTffBkamBMb4wDLgfVlWSO0%3D&reserved=0
> >>>
> >>>
> ****************************************************************************
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 at 08:11, Alfredo Vizzini via Taxacom <
> >>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> if anything, it is time for mycology to free itself from subjection to
> >>> botany and for mushrooms to pass under the ZooCode.....
> >>>
> >>> Alfredo
> >>>
> >>> Il mer 28 giu 2023, 01:36 Mary Barkworth via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>>>
> >>> ha scritto:
> >>>
> >>>> I do not see the logic in suggesting the need for a biological code
> >>>> because one code is a nightmare. When Taxacom gets bogged down in long
> >>>> (?endless) discussions are about the Zoological Code, I give thanks I
> am
> >>>> interested in plants, not animals.  The discussions convince me of the
> >>>> value of having a code that people accept even if they dislike parts
> of
> >>> it.
> >>>> Mary
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of Stephen
> Thorpe
> >>>> via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 1:36 AM
> >>>> To: taxacom at lists.ku.edu <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>; Francisco
> >>>> Welter-Schultes <fwelter at gwdg.de>
> >>>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re: Removals
> >>>> ofoffending scientific names)
> >>>>
> >>>> One point to make about this entire discussion is that it seems to be
> >>>> zoologically hijacked! Very little about the botanical code (or
> whatever
> >>>> you want to call it). Perhaps it really is time for a unified code of
> >>>> biological nomenclature?
> >>>> Stephen
> >>>>   On Wednesday, 28 June 2023 at 01:32:36 am NZST, Francisco
> >>>> Welter-Schultes via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you Alberto for this well presented consideration on some
> >>>> previously expressed arguments against gender agreement.
> >>>>
> >>>> I can agree with some of those points, but not all arguments have been
> >>>> mentioned. I generally observed that not all arguments in this debate
> >>>> have been presented in a balanced way.
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) Are Latin rules complicated? Basically they are not very
> complicated,
> >>>> I ca agree with that, as well as Chinese language and script is not
> >>>> complicated either. Very young children are able to learn Chinese, so
> >>>> for the western world all could learn to speak and write Chinese, too,
> >>>> and then the world would speak one single language. Not being
> >>>> complicated is probably not suffient as an argument why people should
> or
> >>>> are willing learn something. They would ask a question: yes it is not
> >>>> complicated to learn it, but why should we learn it? Is there a
> benefit?
> >>>>
> >>>> Being a moderately skilled taxonomist myself, I am personally able to
> >>>> determine off hand the correct endings of 90 % of molluscan names. In
> 10
> >>>> % I need to research until I get the correct result. I am a taxonomist
> >>>> and, as George has brought forward, I do not like this kind of
> >>>> linguistic research very much, also because I think it is useless, and
> >>>> so I tend to skip such researches and rely on previous authors having
> >>>> done this.
> >>>> Myself not being the only one to approach the issue in this way, many
> >>>> molluscan names have remained in incorrect declinations for a long
> time.
> >>>>
> >>>> I analysed this issue in 2012 in my own taxonomic field.
> >>>> 42 % of 2500 species-group names in European non-marine molluscs were
> >>>> declinable adjectives.
> >>>> In 2100 species, some 200 species had been transferred in the past to
> a
> >>>> genus with a different gender and their ending was changed correctly.
> In
> >>>> another 50 cases the ending was changed incorrectly. Malacologists
> >>>> applied the gender agreement correctly in 80 % of the cases.
> >>>>
> >>>> This may give an idea to judge the meaning of the term "complicated".
> If
> >>>> 80 % of the cases are solved correctly and 20 % not, is it
> complicated?
> >>>> I would not use that term at all. I would just watch the result. We
> are
> >>>> living in an experienced world and do not need to speculate.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) I do not have the feeling that the desire to abandon gender
> agreement
> >>>> is so strictly correlated with the person's language. I have often
> >>>> registered views from English natives who reported that they had no
> >>>> problem with the application of gender agreement, and native speakers
> of
> >>>> languages with gender agreement who opted for changing the current
> >>>> rules. Would be interesting to ask the community for their preference
> in
> >>>> a way Frank has proposed it, and in such a survey ask the participants
> >>>> for their own native language. Then we could see whether there is a
> >>>> correlation or not, and take the appropriate conclusions.
> >>>>
> >>>> 3) Latin as a dead language. One of the effects is that only few
> >>>> biologists have learned Latin in school. Knowledge of Latin is not
> >>>> necessary for applying the gender agreement in zoology. You only need
> to
> >>>> know the rules for the endings of adjectives and how to apply them.
> This
> >>>> is only a very small portion of Latin grammar. Telling a machine to do
> >>>> the gender agreement is quite easy, the machine does not need to know
> >>>> Latin either.
> >>>>
> >>>> 4) Changing a name or an ending of a name does complicate things.
> Search
> >>>> functions in some data resources are able to search tolerantly, in
> >>>> others not. Google search is the best example for a character
> sensitive
> >>>> search funtion: you get different results if you search for species
> >>>> names with variant endings. The dead language problem pops up again
> >>>> here: Latin is utterly unimportant for the world outside, otherwise
> >>>> Google would long have been programmed in a way that would have solved
> >>>> the problems of variant endings. I took Google search only as one
> >>>> example, there are many scientific resources of the same kind.
> >>>>
> >>>> Linnaeus did not have a good idea to invent a binominal system for the
> >>>> species names. When a species is placed into a different genus the
> name
> >>>> of the species will change. People will have to look for two names in
> >>>> the electronic sources when they intend to look for information about
> >>>> this species. Linnaeus did invent the binominal nomenclature to
> improve
> >>>> international (interlingual) scientific communication and to provide
> >>>> only one single name for each species (before 1750 no universally
> >>>> accepted names existed for the animals and plants), but initially he
> was
> >>>> probably not aware that transferring a species from one genus to
> another
> >>>> genus would have the contrary effect.
> >>>>
> >>>> So Alberto's argument is certainly true: Taxonomists are used to the
> >>>> situation that a species may change its name. And I also agree with
> that
> >>>> it should not be a problem that during such a change also the ending
> of
> >>>> the specific name may change. After the new generic placement the
> number
> >>>> of names that you need to know for finding information on such a
> species
> >>>> is two: Elaphe longissima, Zamenis longissimus. It would equally be
> two
> >>>> if the new name would be Zamenis longissima.
> >>>> But.
> >>>> Not all cases are so easy. If some taxonomists suddenly discover that
> >>>> the long accustomed name Zamenis longissimus was incorrectly declined
> >>>> for all the time in the past and should correctly read Zamenis
> >>>> longissima, then we may ask: Is it really necessary to change that?
> What
> >>>> is the benefit? Supercedes the benefit (a good feeling because Latin
> >>>> grammar is applied correctly) the shortcomings (a third name to be
> >>>> researched when trying to find all published information on this
> >>>> species, database entries have to be changed)?
> >>>>
> >>>> Some other arguments brought forward in the debate:
> >>>>
> >>>> 5) Switching back to the original spelling would have the effect that
> >>>> the number of names that would have to change would be high. In
> molluscs
> >>>> 12 % of endings would have to switch once again.
> >>>>
> >>>> 6) A more balanced view on the restricted Code rule application in
> >>>> Lepidoptera would be desired. I am missing a neutral scientific
> approach.
> >>>> Just arguing that the lepidopterists do not respect the Code looks to
> me
> >>>> somehow unfair because they do apply their rules since 1758, as well
> as
> >>>> the others apply their rules since 1758. I am a Commissioner, I am
> not a
> >>>> lepidopterist, so I have to look very closely and in a differentiated
> >>>> manner on such an issue. I have to find an answer to the question
> "why?".
> >>>> Linnaeus himself was the one who decided that lepidopteran names would
> >>>> follow a different treatment than the other animal names. Linnaeus did
> >>>> not use declineable adjectives in any of the 500 butterfly
> species-group
> >>>> names he established. No colleage needed to decline lepidopteran
> names,
> >>>> no lepidopterist needed to learn gender agreement, later this was
> >>>> maintained. So there is a long history behind.
> >>>> The written nomenclatural rules evolved slowly in a long process, and
> it
> >>>> was simply overlooked that the lepidopteran nomenclature followed a
> >>>> different unwritten regulation since 1758. The system works
> >>>> successfully, so I tend to respect it.
> >>>> Alternatively, suddenly starting to apply gender agreement, they would
> >>>> have to check the endings of some 100,000 names for beind declineable
> or
> >>>> not, they would probably find that some 65,000 names are declineable,
> >>>> then they would have to change the endings of some 20,000 names.
> >>>> The impact in lepidopterology would be of the same order of magnitude
> as
> >>>> if the others would have to switch to the original spelling (item 5).
> >>>>
> >>>> 7) The waste of time argument was not mentioned by Alberto. Skilled
> >>>> taxonomists need to spend time on something that does not contribute
> to
> >>>> the knowledge and protection of nature.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best wishes
> >>>> Francisco
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 27.06.2023 um 09:44 schrieb alberto ballerio via Taxacom:
> >>>>> I have followed the discussion with some dismay since the majority of
> >>>> the arguments against gender agreement (or, sometimes, more generally
> >>>> against Latin) are too whimsical to be accepted.
> >>>>> To sum up, I see three rethorical/whimsical (and quite unpresentable
> in
> >>>> my opinion) arguments and one pratical.
> >>>>> The rethorical arguments are:
> >>>>> 1) Latin gender agreement rules are complicated and there are a few
> >>>> exceptions in the rules which furtherly complicate things. My answer
> is:
> >>> in
> >>>> taxonomy there are a lot of complicate things, some strictly necessary
> >>> some
> >>>> others less necessary, but every taxonomists diligently accepts them.
> So,
> >>>> why not gender agreement? The intellectual effort needed for becoming
> >>>> familiar with the idea of gender agreement is minimal and the Latin
> rules
> >>>> about it required fin zooloigcal nomenclature are minimal.
> Furthermore,
> >>> do
> >>>> we have evidence that people coming from cultures which had nothing
> to do
> >>>> with Latin (and/or with gender agreement), such as China and Japan, is
> >>>> totally unable to use Latin (and/or gender agreement)? As far as I can
> >>> see
> >>>> they deal with Latin in an excellent way. And for those who do not
> like
> >>>> adjectives there is always the option to choose a noun or a genitive
> >>> (..or,
> >>>> are also Latin genitive suffixes such as -i, -ae, another unaccetable
> >>> thing
> >>>> for you?).
> >>>>> 2) "My native language does not know gender agreement therefore the
> >>>> whole world must adapt to this". This is a very unpresentable argument
> >>> (and
> >>>> very immodest) and, as far as I can see, the most widespread. Then I
> >>>> suppose that the day some of you decide to learn Italian, French,
> >>> Spanish,
> >>>> German or any other language having gender agreement rules, then you
> will
> >>>> ask their governments to abolish such an outdated habit because you
> feel
> >>>> not at ease with it....
> >>>>> 3) Latin is a dead language, outdated and old fashioned. De facto
> >>> Latin
> >>>> is however the language with which the majority of the 2 millions (?)
> >>>> existing scientific names have been crafted, being Latin or latinized.
> >>> So,
> >>>> a basic knowledge of Latin (and some Ancient Greek) remains a
> necessary
> >>>> tool for a taxonomist in order to deal with what has been done up to
> now
> >>>> and to understand the past of taxonomy. The existing names are also
> >>> likely
> >>>> to represent the most common and widespread living organims on this
> >>> planet
> >>>> and therefore these existing names are likely the ones destined to be
> >>> used
> >>>> more often. Of course it is possible to discuss anything about the
> future
> >>>> of zoological nomenclature, even to abandon Latin and to switch to
> >>>> vernacular names or to English, but I don't see any particular
> advantage
> >>> in
> >>>> doing this.
> >>>>> The practical argument is:
> >>>>> 4) names are labels, and, above all, are treated as such by databases
> >>>> and computers, therefore any change in a name will complicate things
> for
> >>> a
> >>>> computer or anybody managing a database. Change is, however, a
> trademark
> >>> of
> >>>> taxonomy. Names and binomina continuously change because of some
> >>> taxonomic
> >>>> facts (e.g., new combinations, splitting and lumping of taxa),
> >>>> nomenclatural rules (discovery of homonimies, gender agreement,
> >>> corrections
> >>>> of spellings)  and nomenclatural-taxonomic events (i.e., taxonomic
> >>>> decisions which need to follow a nomenclatural rule, i.e., the
> principle
> >>> of
> >>>> prioriry, as in the case of synonymizations). A guy who 40 years ago
> had
> >>>> learnt about the existence of a snake called Elaphe longissima will be
> >>>> somewhat confused with the current name Zamenis longissimus and
> leaving
> >>> it
> >>>> as Zamenis longissima would not represent a big help to him for
> >>> reconciling
> >>>> the two binomina. So, anybody dealing with taxonomy needs to have some
> >>>> knowledge of the rules of taxonomy and nomenclature, gender agreement
> is
> >>>> one of them. And, if, currently, computers are unable to deal with it,
> >>>> let's change computers and, please, do not adapt our mind to the
> limits
> >>> of
> >>>> a machine.
> >>>>> To sum up: Being not afraid of Latin is a requisite for becoming a
> >>>> taxonomist, like being not afraid of blood is a must if you want to
> >>> become
> >>>> a doctor! If you have a thing against Latin, then why are you a
> >>> taxonomist?
> >>>> There are other branches of natural history, such as ecology or
> ethology
> >>>> you could consider and where you will become a simple user of
> scientific
> >>>> names (and in some case you could even use only vernacular names!)
> >>> without
> >>>> the need to understand them and the rules behind them.
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Alberto
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    Il martedì 27 giugno 2023 alle ore 05:11:58 CEST, Frank T. Krell
> >>>> via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> ha scritto:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We (ICZN) are talking about how to organize straw votes on major
> >>>> issues, such as gender agreement, involving as much of the global
> >>>> interested zoological community as possible. I think that consulting
> the
> >>>> community is crucial with such contentions issues as gender agreement
> or
> >>>> mandatory registration. My term with the ICZN ends next year, but I
> will
> >>>> try to push this as long as I can.
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Frank
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief
> >>>>> Commissioner and Councillor, International Commission on Zoological
> >>>> Nomenclature
> >>>>> Department of Zoology
> >>>>> Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> >>>>> 2001 Colorado Blvd
> >>>>> Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
> >>>>> Frank.krell at dmns.org
> >>>>> Phone 303.370.8244
> >>>>> Fax 303.331.6492
> >>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmns.org%2Fscience%2Fzoology%2Fstaff%2Ffrank-krell%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KZxmflZztPWwH5y1kqFILL2qQK2VdjGVX8j2uv4ttQs%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bugs: They're bigger, they're better, they're buggier than ever! It's
> >>>> all about precision flight, swarm intelligence and mind control in the
> >>>> world of "Bugs," the exhibition. Marvel at their adaptive genius and
> see
> >>> if
> >>>> you can match their brilliance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bugs: Son más grandes, mejores y más increíbles que nunca. En la
> >>>> exhibición "Bugs" todo gira en torno al vuelo de precisión, la
> >>> inteligencia
> >>>> en grupo y el control mental. ¡Descubre lo genios que son!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of George
> >>>> Beccaloni via Taxacom
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 11:10 AM
> >>>>> To: Douglas Yanega <dyanega at gmail.com>
> >>>>> Cc: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re:
> Removals
> >>>> ofoffending scientific names)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hopefully the ICZN isn't a dictatorship... If not, perhaps it should
> >>>> consult taxonomists worldwide and give them a vote about continuing or
> >>>> abandoning gender agreement.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> George
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> ****************************************************************************
> >>>>> *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
> >>>>> *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wallace Correspondence Project:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallaceletters.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EKy8VI4xIJecStlK%2BQQQeMgW1yUZJYzYVwDe57vxlLQ%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>> Wallace Memorial Fund: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwallacefund.myspecies.info%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=khvQ8%2FFHZXitgUWHtfaxoTfoE%2FRHsI3pkAShwCSJPf0%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>> ResearchGate:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FGeorge-Beccaloni-2&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6BZaGLDCrrqf0ctt71LQUTffBkamBMb4wDLgfVlWSO0%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> ****************************************************************************
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 18:02, Douglas Yanega via Taxacom <
> >>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 6/26/23 2:53 AM, Geoff Read via Taxacom wrote:
> >>>>>>> As a database editor I can have great difficulty in ascertaining
> the
> >>>>>> gender of a genus, because it isn't stated, and the derivation of
> the
> >>>>>> name is obscure and unresolvable.
> >>>>>>> Sometimes the view of the gender assignment oscillates between
> >>>>>>> masculine
> >>>>>> and feminine with successive authors over the decades. Who is right?
> >>>>>>> The other unnecessary problem is that authors don't think it
> >>>>>>> necessary
> >>>>>> to explain themselves when they suddenly change the gender endings
> >>>>>> within a genus. It's beneath them to help out in that way.
> >>>>>>> So, lacking the explanation, we try to find the evidence for
> >>> ourselves.
> >>>>>> This is a terrific waste of my time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I agree, it IS a waste of your time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If there was a single list to consult that told you *instantly and
> >>>>>> definitively* what gender any given genus is, and another list that
> >>>>>> told you whether or not an epithet is subject to changes in spelling
> >>>>>> (and what those changes are), do you think that this would resolve
> >>>>>> this particular issue?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Don't give in to the Dark Side.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peace,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology      Entomology Research Museum
> >>>>>> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314    skype: dyanega
> >>>>>> phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
> >>>>>>              https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.ucr.edu%2F~heraty%2Fyanega.html&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eni%2Ba9EaDOzRm6af0YeZU8OA92pAv%2BiU4Pchzh1M8S8%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>    "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
> >>>>>>          is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu For
> >>>>>> list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>>>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>>>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu The Taxacom email archive back to 1992
> can
> >>>> be searched at:
> >>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> >>>>>> for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu For
> >>> list
> >>>> information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu The Taxacom email archive back to 1992
> can be
> >>>> searched at: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> >>> for
> >>>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> >>> for
> >>>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> >>> for
> >>>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>>>
> >>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>
> >>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> for
> >>>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>>>
> >>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>
> >>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> for
> >>>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>>>
> >>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >>>>
> >>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> for
> >>>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>>
> >>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >>>
> >>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> for
> >>> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>
> >> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> >> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Caab3688388e94f8e28ed08db77c54a6a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638235461515971466%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WAuWo1PO3hiB%2FPgv3plb4JDJdEZ2kKWE9vQgOAtJtMI%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
>