Taxacom: Science fraud - Nature

Tony Rees tonyrees49 at gmail.com
Fri Aug 25 13:35:08 CDT 2023


OK John, thanks for the clarification. In any case your proposed "tectonic
correlations" with historic biogeographic events seem perfectly plausible
to me.

Best - Tony

Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mpPVah2FheTobMCfa2vxJrWLrBbbaEZui%2BVZogNHN6Q%3D&reserved=0


On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 at 02:37, John Grehan via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
wrote:

> Of course it's a 'rant', just like any other on this list, so no offense.
> Funding - agreed, that is a pertinent issue. For panbiogeography this is
> not only a problem where supporters of suppression and censorship are well
> funded, but when a particular perspective dominates funding sources,
> opposing research (panbiogeography)  has no chance at all. I forgot to
> include in earlier posting that suppression and censorship is supported by
> at least one scientific institution - the Royal Society of New Zealand.
>
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 1:00 AM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Tony,
> > I'm not sure what John is on about either ... probably just another
> > biogeographer rant (sorry John!)
> > However, John does raise some valid general issues, but nobody seems to
> > like to discuss these issues. One such issue concerns the notion of
> > "fraud", but I'm framing it as a funding issue. Is it fraud for a
> project's
> > merits to be misrepresented to funders by applicants, or is it simply
> > "worth a shot?" If a funded project's merits are subsequently found to
> have
> > been misrepresented in an accepted  application, then should the funding
> be
> > refunded? Do funders even care? Does anybody even care? These are,
> > unfortunately, real issues.
> > Cheers, Stephen
> >
> > On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 04:43:53 pm NZST, Tony Rees <
> > tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > I am still confused as to the subject matter of your post. You wrote:
> > -------------------
> > Recently when I noted about ZooNova as a publication option, a Taxacom
> > colleague implied (oof list) that the journal was dubious because he
> > considered one (or more) papers to be dubious (in that person's
> judgement).
> > Here is a classic case of a 'Top' journal retracting a paper, showing
> that
> > the supposed 'prestige' of a journal has nothing necessarily to do with
> its
> > content. In this case it was picked up on because the paper in question
> > appears to have run afoul of a sufficient number of prominent or
> > influential researchers. In biogeography this does not happen, as the
> > prominent (powerful and influential) players all play to the fraud (that
> > being the misrepresentation of what CODA methods can or cannot do or
> > support). Power is everything in science.
> > -------------------
> >
> > First of all, the journal involved is not Nature, so the title of the
> > topic is misleading (as I already stated). Second, retracting a poor
> paper
> > written by persons with no credentials in climate science, in a
> non-climate
> > science journal, that makes large and unfounded claims regarding a
> > particular aspect of climate science, is simply an indication of poor (or
> > more likely, inappropriate) peer review, so does not seem to prove
> > anything. Then you introduce something to do with the lab leak theory of
> > COVID origin, which seems to indicate nothing as well, in addition to
> > flying in the face of all published evidence. Then you claim that the use
> > of CODA methods in biogeography are some sort of fraud, with some
> > implication that views to the contrary are being suppressed, despite the
> > fact that you have a paper already out in "Cladistics"  in which such
> > matters are apparently discussed (https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1111%2Fcla.12537&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nzQl5vVxcyGDeWKFsb0iU2ck28aHlNs666r03o1Nq0c%3D&reserved=0). So
> > what is the overall point of this thread, or can it simply be put to
> rest?
> >
> > Not wishing to be unhelpful here, just somewhat confused...
> >
> > Regards - Tony
> >
> > Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mpPVah2FheTobMCfa2vxJrWLrBbbaEZui%2BVZogNHN6Q%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 at 10:03, John Grehan via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >
> > I agree fully with Stephen about avoiding 'nefarious motivations', even
> > though they might be true. My focus is on the use of methodologies that
> > purport (functionally or operationally) one thing (empirical evidence)
> but
> > are another (imagined evidence). As a rhetorical question, one might ask
> > about papers by Waters and his cohort  if they do not include
> consideration
> > panbiogeographic evidence where pertinent given that they have
> > publicly stated their support for suppression and censorship of
> > panbiogeography. Having made their declaration it would seem absence
> would
> > have to be intentional which raises the obvious inference. But I will
> > refrain from characterizing it a fraud since without an explicit
> statement
> > in each case one could really not know. On the other hand, other people
> > have stated their deliberate intention of not citing or discussing
> > panbiogeography, so in those cases their works would seem to be
> fraudulent.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 6:34 PM Stephen Thorpe <
> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > The term fraud does have a broader meaning in English, not restricted
> to
> > > the legal definition. For example, it can be said of a person that he
> is
> > a
> > > fraud. If there is any ambiguity in contexts like the present one, then
> > it
> > > is perhaps best to use the phrase tantamount to fraud.
> > >
> > > Scientific studies and articles may in fact have an aspect of true
> legal
> > > fraud, if their merits were misrepresented to the funder. However, the
> > onus
> > > might be on the funder to properly evaluate applications and reject any
> > > misrepresentations/exaggerations. In practice though, all my experience
> > > suggests that there are few effective safeguards here. Personally, I
> > think
> > > that if an article is retracted by the publisher, then the funder
> should
> > > also be reimbursed for the waste of funding, but I suspect that doesn't
> > > happen!
> > >
> > > Funding issues aside, there are plenty of scientific articles out there
> > > that are simply of poor quality or just plain wrong (whether by
> > > incompetence or by design). Peer review doesn't seem to be very
> effective
> > > in practice. So, as with anything, one simply has to maintain a
> critical
> > > attitude and, if something is seen to be wrong, try to publicly explain
> > why
> > > it is wrong. Rants probably just do more harm than good.
> > >
> > > So, John's opinion on the matter does matter, as much as anyone else's,
> > > but he perhaps just needs to take a different approach and avoid
> > ascribing
> > > nefarious motivations, even though it might be true. Better to just
> > > critique the content, rather than going down the rabbit hole of
> possible
> > > motivations.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Stephen
> > >
> > > On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 09:51:17 am NZST, Michael A. Ivie via
> > Taxacom
> > > <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > It does not matter that YOU consider it fraud, your opinion has no
> value
> > > as to the meaning of a criminal act, there is a definition of the word
> > > and crime, you don't just get to make things up.  You can do that in
> > > biogeography, and that is not fraud either.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > On 8/24/2023 3:28 PM, John Grehan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ***External Sender***
> > > >
> > > > If one sticks to fraud as 'intentional deception' then I would agree.
> > > > As I cannot provide proof of such intention, this would not apply.
> > > > CODA is an operational deception, and in that regard I consider it
> > > > fraudulent, definitions notwithstanding. Cheers, John
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 5:24 PM Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >    What you describe does not fit the definition of Fraud.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >    On 8/24/2023 2:46 PM, John Grehan wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>    ***External Sender***
> > > >>
> > > >>    Thanks for the word of caution Mike. I am referring to CODA as a
> > > >>    fraud, but not making any assertions about individuals with
> > > >>    respect to ' intentional perversion of truth'. CODA is itself
> > > >>    fraudulent as it does not do what it is constructed to do - to
> > > >>    provide scientific (empirical) evidence for conclusions about
> > > >>    (chance) dispersal and vicariance. It is a fraudulent practice
> > > >>    because it misrepresents fossil calibrated molecular divergence
> > > >>    ages as actual or maximal (which is simply impossible
> > > >>    empirically, it has to be imagined), uses recipes such as
> > > >>    BioGeoBears that can render results in favor of chance dispersal
> > > >>    when vicariance is an equally applicable mechanism, and it uses
> > > >>    areas that have no empirical (scientifically verifiable)
> > > >>    boundaries. Whether CODA supporters knowingly ignore this is
> > > >>    another matter.
> > > >>
> > > >>    On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 4:35 PM Michael A. Ivie via Taxacom
> > > >>    <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>        John,
> > > >>
> > > >>        Perhaps you need to look up the definition of fraud, as it is
> > > >>        a word
> > > >>        worthy of civil suit for slander:
> > > >>
> > > >>        "**intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another
> > > >>        to part
> > > >>        with something of value or to surrender a legal right"
> > > >>
> > > >>        Fraud is to get something of value, it is not the same as
> > > >>        suppression.
> > > >>
> > > >>        perhaps you mean dispute or suppression.
> > > >>
> > > >>        Mike.
> > > >>
> > > >>        On 8/24/2023 2:16 PM, John Grehan via Taxacom wrote:
> > > >>        > **External Sender**
> > > >>        >
> > > >>        > Yep - although CODA stands for center of origin, dispersal,
> > and
> > > >>        > adaptation (adaptation as a means of dispersal, and
> > > >>        dispersal as a
> > > >>        > mechanism for differentiation). I see no problem bringing
> > > >>        the matter up
> > > >>        > here as many taxonomists have strong views about
> > > >>        biogeography (haven't met
> > > >>        > any that don't at least), and all the molecular
> > > >>        taxonomists/systematists
> > > >>        > practice CODA methods that don't do what they claim, or use
> > non
> > > >>        > empirically non-existent units of analysis.
> > > >>        >
> > > >>        > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 3:52 PM Tony
> > > >>        Rees<tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>        >
> > > >>        >> Hi John, an 800 word (all right, 791) extended quotation
> > > >>        disputing the
> > > >>        >> origins of COVID hardly qualifies as "not wanting to go
> > > >>        down the COVID
> > > >>        >> hole", but I will let it pass...
> > > >>        >>
> > > >>        >> I must confess the acronym CODA as related to biogeography
> > > >>        is unfamiliar
> > > >>        >> to me, however a brief google search led me here: "Biotic
> > > >>        assembly in
> > > >>        >> evolutionary biogeography: a case for integrative
> > > >>        pluralism" by Juan J.
> > > >>        >> Morrone. published in 2020 in "Frontiers of Biogeography",
> > > >>        which claims to
> > > >>        >> "... discuss the differences between the
> > > >>        dispersal-vicariance model and the
> > > >>        >> center of origin-dispersal-vicariance (CODA) and
> > > >>        vicariance models". My
> > > >>        >> guess is that if you have a problem with claimed fraud in
> > > >>        "CODA practice",
> > > >>        >> you should take it up in a forum or publication route
> > > >>        relevant to that
> > > >>        >> topic. Sorry.
> > > >>        >>
> > > >>        >> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> > > >>        >> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mpPVah2FheTobMCfa2vxJrWLrBbbaEZui%2BVZogNHN6Q%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mpPVah2FheTobMCfa2vxJrWLrBbbaEZui%2BVZogNHN6Q%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        >>
> > > >>        >>
> > > >>        >> On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 at 05:31, John
> > > >>        Grehan<calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>        >>
> > > >>        >>> I would add that the examples given concern instances
> > > >>        where the fraud
> > > >>        >>> involved a minority but what happens when the fraud is
> > > >>        committed by the
> > > >>        >>> majority (as in CODA practice)?
> > > >>        >>>
> > > >>        >>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 3:26 PM John
> > > >>        Grehan<calabar.john at gmail.com>
> > > >>        >>> wrote:
> > > >>        >>>
> > > >>        >>>> Yeah  - not wanting to go down the COVID hole, or any
> > > >>        other subject.
> > > >>        >>>> Just happened to be example issues. Cheers, John
> > > >>        >>>>
> > > >>        >>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 3:04 PM Tony
> > > >>        Rees<tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>        >>>>
> > > >>        >>>>> Hi John, you wrote:
> > > >>        >>>>>>   If a climate paper was published in Nature or
> > > >>        Science, which are not
> > > >>        >>>>> climate journals, is this because the authors wished to
> > > >>        avoid peer review?
> > > >>        >>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>> No, I think it is fair to say that these are special
> > > >>        cases, that sit
> > > >>        >>>>> somewhere above more discipline-specific journals, for
> > > >>        articles deemed to
> > > >>        >>>>> have high importance; and accordingly, would seek out
> > > >>        the best (?) experts
> > > >>        >>>>> in relevant fields for review of any particular
> > > >>        article. That would be the
> > > >>        >>>>> hope, anyway :)
> > > >>        >>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>> Not going to go down the rabbit hole of origins of
> > > >>        Covid at this time,
> > > >>        >>>>> however I note that the Rupert Murdoch-owned
> > > >>        "Australian" was strongly
> > > >>        >>>>> promoting views by a Sky News Journalist (who wrote a
> > > >>        book on the same
> > > >>        >>>>> subject last year) that everything is a cover-up and
> > > >>        the virus escaped from
> > > >>        >>>>> the Wuhan Lab. I fact checked her first 4 statements
> > > >>        and they were all
> > > >>        >>>>> incorrect, after which I lost faith in her analysis.
> > > >>        For now I think the
> > > >>        >>>>> best summary is probably at
> > > >>        >>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FOrigin_of_COVID-19&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=riaZmg5JkwH9e2Elcl9%2F9%2F%2FCcwlWjlldUHh71BwiSH0%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FOrigin_of_COVID-19&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=riaZmg5JkwH9e2Elcl9%2F9%2F%2FCcwlWjlldUHh71BwiSH0%3D&reserved=0>,
> > > >>        which Taxacom
> > > >>        >>>>> readers are welcome to consult for more detail, or even
> > > >>        amend if they
> > > >>        >>>>> disagree with it.
> > > >>        >>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>> Regards - Tony
> > > >>        >>>>> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> > > >>        >>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mpPVah2FheTobMCfa2vxJrWLrBbbaEZui%2BVZogNHN6Q%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mpPVah2FheTobMCfa2vxJrWLrBbbaEZui%2BVZogNHN6Q%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        >>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>> On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 at 04:43, John
> > > >>        Grehan<calabar.john at gmail.com>
> > > >>        >>>>> wrote:
> > > >>        >>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>> That's an interesting quote about not publishing in a
> > > >>        climate journal
> > > >>        >>>>>> for a climate paper: "This is a common avenue taken by
> > > >>        'climate skeptics'
> > > >>        >>>>>> in order to avoid peer review by real experts in the
> > > >>        field." But just
> > > >>        >>>>>> because a climate paper is not published in a climate
> > > >>        journal does not mean
> > > >>        >>>>>> that it can avoid 'peer' review. It depends on the
> > > >>        journal and the intent
> > > >>        >>>>>> of the editor to ensure that proper peer review takes
> > > >>        place. If a climate
> > > >>        >>>>>> paper was published in Nature or Science, which are
> > > >>        not climate journals,
> > > >>        >>>>>> is this because the authors wished to avoid peer
> review?
> > > >>        >>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:40 PM John
> > > >>        Grehan<calabar.john at gmail.com>
> > > >>        >>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>        >>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Thanks for that clarification Tony. As for Nature
> > > >>        "might have a
> > > >>        >>>>>>> higher degree of scrutiny" - who knows. Saw this as
> > > >>        yet unresolved issue
> > > >>        >>>>>>> below, this time involving Nature. I don't keep
> > > >>        regular track of such
> > > >>        >>>>>>> questions, although perhaps I should, and write
> > > >>        something on fraud in CODA
> > > >>        >>>>>>> biogeography - but then who would publish such?
> > > >>        >>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>> A growing number of people, including prominent
> > > >>        scientists, are
> > > >>        >>>>>>> calling for a full retraction of a high-profile study
> > > >>        published in the
> > > >>        >>>>>>> journal Nature in March 2020 that explored the
> > > >>        origins of SARS-CoV-2.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> The paper, whose authors included immunology and
> > > >>        microbiology
> > > >>        >>>>>>> professor Kristian G. Andersen, declared that
> > > >>        evidence clearly showed that
> > > >>        >>>>>>> SARS-CoV-2 did not originate from a laboratory.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> “Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a
> > > >>        laboratory
> > > >>        >>>>>>> construct or a purposefully manipulated virus,” the
> > > >>        authors wrote in
> > > >>        >>>>>>> February.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Yet a trove of recently published documents reveal
> > > >>        that Andersen and
> > > >>        >>>>>>> his co-authors believed that the lab leak scenario
> > > >>        was not just possible,
> > > >>        >>>>>>> but likely.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> “[The] main thing still in my mind is that the lab
> > > >>        escape version of
> > > >>        >>>>>>> this is so friggin’ likely to have happened because
> > > >>        they were already doing
> > > >>        >>>>>>> this type of work and the molecular data is fully
> > > >>        consistent with that
> > > >>        >>>>>>> scenario,” Andersen said to his colleagues, according
> > > >>        to a report from
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Public, which published a series of Slack messages
> > > >>        between the authors.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Anderson was not the only author who privately
> > > >>        expressed doubts that
> > > >>        >>>>>>> the virus had natural origins. Public cataloged
> > > >>        dozens of statements from
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Andersen and his co-authors—Andrew Rambaut, W. Ian
> > > >>        Lipkin, Edward C.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Holmes, and Robert F. Garry—between the dates January
> > > >>        31 and February 28,
> > > >>        >>>>>>> 2020 suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 may have been
> > engineered.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> ” …the fact that we are discussing this shows how
> > > >>        plausible it is,”
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Garry said of the lab-leak hypothesis.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> “We unfortunately can’t refute the lab leak
> > > >>        hypothesis,” Andersen
> > > >>        >>>>>>> said on Feb. 20, several days after the authors
> > > >>        published their pre-print.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> To complicate matters further, new reporting from The
> > > >>        Intercept
> > > >>        >>>>>>> reveals that Anderson had an $8.9 million grant with
> > > >>        NIH pending final
> > > >>        >>>>>>> approval from Dr. Anthony Fauci when the Proximal
> > > >>        Origin paper was
> > > >>        >>>>>>> submitted.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> ‘Fraud and Scientific Misconduct’?
> > > >>        >>>>>>> The findings have led several prominent figures to
> > > >>        accuse the authors
> > > >>        >>>>>>> of outright deception.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Richard H. Ebright, the Board of Governors Professor
> > > >>        of Chemistry and
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Chemical Biology at Rutgers University, called the
> > > >>        paper “scientific
> > > >>        >>>>>>> fraud.”
> > > >>        >>>>>>> “The 2020 ‘Proximal Origin’ paper falsely claimed
> > > >>        science showed
> > > >>        >>>>>>> COVID-19 did not have a lab origin,” tweeted Ebright.
> > > >>        “Newly released
> > > >>        >>>>>>> messages from the authors show they did not believe
> > > >>        the conclusions of the
> > > >>        >>>>>>> paper and show the paper is the product of scientific
> > > >>        fraud and scientific
> > > >>        >>>>>>> misconduct.”
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Ebright and Silver are among those pushing a petition
> > > >>        urging Nature
> > > >>        >>>>>>> to retract the article in light of these findings.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Among those to sign the petition was Neil Harrison, a
> > > >>        professor of
> > > >>        >>>>>>> anesthesiology and molecular pharmacology at Columbia
> > > >>        University.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> “Virologists and their allies have produced a number
> > > >>        of papers that
> > > >>        >>>>>>> purport to show that the virus was of natural origin
> > > >>        and that the pandemic
> > > >>        >>>>>>> began at the Huanan seafood market,” Harrison told
> > > >>        The Telegraph. “In fact
> > > >>        >>>>>>> there is no evidence for either of these conclusions,
> > > >>        and the email and
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Slack messages among the authors show that they knew
> > > >>        at the time that this
> > > >>        >>>>>>> was the case.”
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Only ‘Expressing Opinions’?
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Dr. Joao Monteiro, chief editor of Nature, has
> > > >>        rebuffed calls for a
> > > >>        >>>>>>> retraction, The Telegraph notes, saying the authors
> > > >>        were merely “expressing
> > > >>        >>>>>>> opinions.”
> > > >>        >>>>>>> This claim is dubious at best. From the beginning,
> > > >>        the Proximal
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Origin study was presented as authoritative and
> > > >>        scientific. Jeremy Farrar,
> > > >>        >>>>>>> a British medical researcher and now the chief
> > > >>        scientist at the World
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Health Organization (WHO), told USA Today that
> > > >>        Proximal Origin was the
> > > >>        >>>>>>> “most important research on the genomic epidemiology
> > > >>        of the origins of this
> > > >>        >>>>>>> virus to date.”
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Dr. Anthony Fauci, speaking from the White House
> > > >>        podium in April
> > > >>        >>>>>>> 2020, cited the study as evidence that the mutations
> > > >>        of the virus were
> > > >>        >>>>>>> “totally consistent with a jump from a species of an
> > > >>        animal to a human.”
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Fact-check organizations were soon citing the study
> > > >>        as proof that COVID-19
> > > >>        >>>>>>> “could not have been manipulated.”
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Far from being presented as a handful of scientists
> > > >>        “expressing
> > > >>        >>>>>>> opinions,” the Proximal Origin study was treated as
> > > >>        gospel, a dogma that
> > > >>        >>>>>>> could not even be questioned. This allowed social
> > > >>        media companies (working
> > > >>        >>>>>>> hand-in-hand with government agencies) to censor
> > > >>        people who publicly stated
> > > >>        >>>>>>> what Andersen and his colleagues were saying
> > > >>        privately—that it seemed
> > > >>        >>>>>>> plausible that SARS-CoV-2 came from the laboratory in
> > > >>        Wuhan that
> > > >>        >>>>>>> experimented on coronaviruses and had a checkered
> > > >>        safety record.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Indeed, even as media and government officials used
> > > >>        the Proximal
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Origin study to smear people as conspiracy theorists
> > > >>        for speculating that
> > > >>        >>>>>>> COVID-19 might have emerged from the Wuhan lab, a
> > > >>        Defense Intelligence
> > > >>        >>>>>>> Agency study commissioned by the government
> > > >>        questioned the study’s
> > > >>        >>>>>>> scientific rigor.
> > > >>        >>>>>>> “The arguments that Andersen et al. use to support a
> > > >>        natural-origin
> > > >>        >>>>>>> scenario for SARS CoV-2 are based not on scientific
> > > >>        analysis, but on
> > > >>        >>>>>>> unwarranted assumptions,” the now-declassified paper
> > > >>        concluded. “In fact,
> > > >>        >>>>>>> the features of SARS-CoV-2 noted by Andersen et al.
> > > >>        are consistent with
> > > >>        >>>>>>> another scenario: that SARS-CoV-2 was developed in a
> > > >>        laboratory…”
> > > >>        >>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:22 PM Tony
> > > >>        Rees<tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
> > > >>        >>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>        >>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> Hi John,
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> I took a look at the paper which is online and open
> > > >>        access. I must
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> say when I saw it at the time of original
> > > >>        publication I thought its main
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> conclusions very odd and at variance with almost all
> > > >>        other research on the
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> topic.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> Just to be clear per your thread title - the paper
> > > >>        does not appear
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> in "Nature" (which I imagine might have a higher
> > > >>        degree of scrutiny), but
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> in "The European Physical Journal Plus" which is a
> > > >>        different outlet, albeit
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> from the same publisher.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> Best - Tony
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mpPVah2FheTobMCfa2vxJrWLrBbbaEZui%2BVZogNHN6Q%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mpPVah2FheTobMCfa2vxJrWLrBbbaEZui%2BVZogNHN6Q%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 at 03:59, John Grehan via
> Taxacom
> > <
> > > >>        >>>>>>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> Recently when I noted about ZooNova as a
> > > >>        publication option, a
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> Taxacom
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> colleague implied (oof list) that the journal was
> > > >>        dubious because he
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> considered one (or more) papers to be dubious (in
> > > >>        that person's
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> judgement).
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> Here is a classic case of a 'Top' journal
> > > >>        retracting a paper,
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> showing that
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> the supposed 'prestige' of a journal has nothing
> > > >>        necessarily to do
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> with its
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> content. In this case it was picked up on because
> > > >>        the paper in
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> question
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> appears to have run afoul of a sufficient number of
> > > >>        prominent or
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> influential researchers. In biogeography this does
> > > >>        not happen, as
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> the
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> prominent (powerful and influential) players all
> > > >>        play to the fraud
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> (that
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> being the misrepresentation of what CODA methods
> > > >>        can or cannot do or
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> support). Power is everything in science.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> Top science publisher Springer Nature said it has
> > > >>        withdrawn a study
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> that
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> presented misleading conclusions on climate change
> > > >>        impacts after an
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> investigation prompted by an AFP inquiry.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> AFP reported in September 2022 on concerns over the
> > > >>        peer-reviewed
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> study by
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> four Italian scientists that appeared earlier that
> > > >>        year in the
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> European
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> Physical Journal Plus, published by Springer
> Nature.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> The study had drawn positive attention from
> > > >>        climate-sceptic media.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> The paper, titled "A critical assessment of extreme
> > > >>        events trends
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> in times
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> of global warming", purported to review data on
> > > >>        possible changes in
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> the
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> frequency or intensity of rainfall, cyclones,
> > > >>        tornadoes, droughts
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> and other
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> extreme weather events.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> Several climate scientists contacted by AFP said
> > > >>        the study
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> manipulated
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> data, cherry picked facts and ignored others that
> > > >>        would contradict
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> their
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> assertions, prompting the publisher to launch an
> > > >>        internal review.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> "The Editors and publishers concluded that they no
> > > >>        longer had
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> confidence in
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> the results and conclusions of the article,"
> > > >>        Springer Nature told
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> AFP in an
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> email late Wednesday.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> The journal's editors published an online note
> > > >>        stating that the
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> paper was
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> retracted due to concerns over "the selection of
> > > >>        the data, the
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> analysis and
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> the resulting conclusions".
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> --
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        (use the 'visit archived web
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> site'
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions
> > > >>        to:taxacom at lists.ku.edu <mailto:to%3Ataxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe,
> > > >>        visit:
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> > > >>        <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be
> > > >>        searched at:
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7OLUzz1sDbZFh9rD7B99RZCSgpRnDJNYKewypzw57hY%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7OLUzz1sDbZFh9rD7B99RZCSgpRnDJNYKewypzw57hY%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and
> > admiring
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>> alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>> --
> > > >>        >>>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        (use the 'visit archived web
> > > >>        >>>>>>> site' link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> > > >>        >>>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>>>> --
> > > >>        >>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        (use the 'visit archived web
> > > >>        >>>>>> site' link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> > > >>        >>>>>>
> > > >>        >>>> --
> > > >>        >>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        (use the 'visit archived web site'
> > > >>        >>>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> > > >>        >>>>
> > > >>        >>>
> > > >>        >>> --
> > > >>        >>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        (use the 'visit archived web site'
> > > >>        >>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> > > >>        >>>
> > > >>        > --
> > > >>        > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853313946805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pdWVM3%2BfQEpmwH2pVPPauAG0FuNav0mpnyBSo4vERXM%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        (use the 'visit archived web site'
> > > >>        > link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> > > >>        > _______________________________________________
> > > >>        > Taxacom Mailing List
> > > >>        >
> > > >>        > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions
> > > >>        to:taxacom at lists.ku.edu <mailto:to%3Ataxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> > > >>        > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe,
> > > >>        visit:https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> > > >>        <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
> > > >>        > You can reach the person managing the list
> > > >>        at:taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> > > >>        <mailto:at%3Ataxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu>
> > > >>        > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched
> > > >>        at:https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uS4oTqxU631Kmyglw6%2Fyw%2BOY8kOdUuXaEjikyy3iLdE%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uS4oTqxU631Kmyglw6%2Fyw%2BOY8kOdUuXaEjikyy3iLdE%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>        >
> > > >>        > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
> > > >>        alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> > > >>
> > > >>        --
> > > >>        __________________________________________________
> > > >>
> > > >>        Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> > > >>
> > > >>        NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on
> > > >>        carriers
> > > >>
> > > >>        US Post Office Address:
> > > >>        Montana Entomology Collection
> > > >>        Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > >>        PO Box 173145
> > > >>        Montana State University
> > > >>        Bozeman, MT 59717
> > > >>        USA
> > > >>
> > > >>        UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> > > >>        Montana Entomology Collection
> > > >>        Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > >>        1911 West Lincoln Street
> > > >>        Montana State University
> > > >>        Bozeman, MT 59718
> > > >>        USA
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>        (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> > > >>        (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> > > >>        mivie at montana.edu
> > > >>        _______________________________________________
> > > >>        Taxacom Mailing List
> > > >>
> > > >>        Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> > > >>        For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > > >>        https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> > > >>        <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
> > > >>        You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > > >>        taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> > > >>        The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > > >>        https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uS4oTqxU631Kmyglw6%2Fyw%2BOY8kOdUuXaEjikyy3iLdE%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>        <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uS4oTqxU631Kmyglw6%2Fyw%2BOY8kOdUuXaEjikyy3iLdE%3D&reserved=0>
> > > >>
> > > >>        Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
> > > >>        alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>    --
> > > >>    https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cOvKtMMc5wl9osjxiaJOlL1%2B6zUZhcMyWjUB1vmEuC0%3D&reserved=0
> > > >>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cOvKtMMc5wl9osjxiaJOlL1%2B6zUZhcMyWjUB1vmEuC0%3D&reserved=0> (use
> > > >>    the 'visit archived web site' link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research
> > > >>    page' link.
> > > >
> > > >    --
> > > >    __________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > >    Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> > > >
> > > >    NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
> > > >
> > > >    US Post Office Address:
> > > >    Montana Entomology Collection
> > > >    Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > >    PO Box 173145
> > > >    Montana State University
> > > >    Bozeman, MT 59717
> > > >    USA
> > > >
> > > >    UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> > > >    Montana Entomology Collection
> > > >    Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > >    1911 West Lincoln Street
> > > >    Montana State University
> > > >    Bozeman, MT 59718
> > > >    USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >    (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> > > >    (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> > > >    mivie at montana.edu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cOvKtMMc5wl9osjxiaJOlL1%2B6zUZhcMyWjUB1vmEuC0%3D&reserved=0
> > > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cOvKtMMc5wl9osjxiaJOlL1%2B6zUZhcMyWjUB1vmEuC0%3D&reserved=0> (use
> > > > the 'visit archived web site' link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research
> > > > page' link.
> > >
> > > --
> > > __________________________________________________
> > >
> > > Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> > >
> > > NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
> > >
> > > US Post Office Address:
> > > Montana Entomology Collection
> > > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > PO Box 173145
> > > Montana State University
> > > Bozeman, MT 59717
> > > USA
> > >
> > > UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> > > Montana Entomology Collection
> > > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > 1911 West Lincoln Street
> > > Montana State University
> > > Bozeman, MT 59718
> > > USA
> > >
> > >
> > > (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> > > (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> > > mivie at montana.edu
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > >
> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> > > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > > https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> > > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uS4oTqxU631Kmyglw6%2Fyw%2BOY8kOdUuXaEjikyy3iLdE%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> for
> > > about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cOvKtMMc5wl9osjxiaJOlL1%2B6zUZhcMyWjUB1vmEuC0%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> > link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uS4oTqxU631Kmyglw6%2Fyw%2BOY8kOdUuXaEjikyy3iLdE%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> > about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >
> >
>
> --
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cOvKtMMc5wl9osjxiaJOlL1%2B6zUZhcMyWjUB1vmEuC0%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc1e4d185afa94742417008dba59a0d25%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285853314103046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uS4oTqxU631Kmyglw6%2Fyw%2BOY8kOdUuXaEjikyy3iLdE%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>


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