Taxacom: Science fraud - Nature
Michael A. Ivie
mivie at montana.edu
Thu Aug 24 16:50:50 CDT 2023
It does not matter that YOU consider it fraud, your opinion has no value
as to the meaning of a criminal act, there is a definition of the word
and crime, you don't just get to make things up. You can do that in
biogeography, and that is not fraud either.
Mike
On 8/24/2023 3:28 PM, John Grehan wrote:
>
> ***External Sender***
>
> If one sticks to fraud as 'intentional deception' then I would agree.
> As I cannot provide proof of such intention, this would not apply.
> CODA is an operational deception, and in that regard I consider it
> fraudulent, definitions notwithstanding. Cheers, John
>
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 5:24 PM Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
>
> What you describe does not fit the definition of Fraud.
>
>
> On 8/24/2023 2:46 PM, John Grehan wrote:
>>
>> ***External Sender***
>>
>> Thanks for the word of caution Mike. I am referring to CODA as a
>> fraud, but not making any assertions about individuals with
>> respect to ' intentional perversion of truth'. CODA is itself
>> fraudulent as it does not do what it is constructed to do - to
>> provide scientific (empirical) evidence for conclusions about
>> (chance) dispersal and vicariance. It is a fraudulent practice
>> because it misrepresents fossil calibrated molecular divergence
>> ages as actual or maximal (which is simply impossible
>> empirically, it has to be imagined), uses recipes such as
>> BioGeoBears that can render results in favor of chance dispersal
>> when vicariance is an equally applicable mechanism, and it uses
>> areas that have no empirical (scientifically verifiable)
>> boundaries. Whether CODA supporters knowingly ignore this is
>> another matter.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 4:35 PM Michael A. Ivie via Taxacom
>> <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>> Perhaps you need to look up the definition of fraud, as it is
>> a word
>> worthy of civil suit for slander:
>>
>> "**intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another
>> to part
>> with something of value or to surrender a legal right"
>>
>> Fraud is to get something of value, it is not the same as
>> suppression.
>>
>> perhaps you mean dispute or suppression.
>>
>> Mike.
>>
>> On 8/24/2023 2:16 PM, John Grehan via Taxacom wrote:
>> > **External Sender**
>> >
>> > Yep - although CODA stands for center of origin, dispersal, and
>> > adaptation (adaptation as a means of dispersal, and
>> dispersal as a
>> > mechanism for differentiation). I see no problem bringing
>> the matter up
>> > here as many taxonomists have strong views about
>> biogeography (haven't met
>> > any that don't at least), and all the molecular
>> taxonomists/systematists
>> > practice CODA methods that don't do what they claim, or use non
>> > empirically non-existent units of analysis.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 3:52 PM Tony
>> Rees<tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi John, an 800 word (all right, 791) extended quotation
>> disputing the
>> >> origins of COVID hardly qualifies as "not wanting to go
>> down the COVID
>> >> hole", but I will let it pass...
>> >>
>> >> I must confess the acronym CODA as related to biogeography
>> is unfamiliar
>> >> to me, however a brief google search led me here: "Biotic
>> assembly in
>> >> evolutionary biogeography: a case for integrative
>> pluralism" by Juan J.
>> >> Morrone. published in 2020 in "Frontiers of Biogeography",
>> which claims to
>> >> "... discuss the differences between the
>> dispersal-vicariance model and the
>> >> center of origin-dispersal-vicariance (CODA) and
>> vicariance models". My
>> >> guess is that if you have a problem with claimed fraud in
>> "CODA practice",
>> >> you should take it up in a forum or publication route
>> relevant to that
>> >> topic. Sorry.
>> >>
>> >> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
>> >> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=z2m2LmiV2xLODA2jELvuffsiCm8v5%2BR%2Brf7I70mU21w%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=z2m2LmiV2xLODA2jELvuffsiCm8v5%2BR%2Brf7I70mU21w%3D&reserved=0>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 at 05:31, John
>> Grehan<calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I would add that the examples given concern instances
>> where the fraud
>> >>> involved a minority but what happens when the fraud is
>> committed by the
>> >>> majority (as in CODA practice)?
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 3:26 PM John
>> Grehan<calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Yeah - not wanting to go down the COVID hole, or any
>> other subject.
>> >>>> Just happened to be example issues. Cheers, John
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 3:04 PM Tony
>> Rees<tonyrees49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi John, you wrote:
>> >>>>>> If a climate paper was published in Nature or
>> Science, which are not
>> >>>>> climate journals, is this because the authors wished to
>> avoid peer review?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> No, I think it is fair to say that these are special
>> cases, that sit
>> >>>>> somewhere above more discipline-specific journals, for
>> articles deemed to
>> >>>>> have high importance; and accordingly, would seek out
>> the best (?) experts
>> >>>>> in relevant fields for review of any particular
>> article. That would be the
>> >>>>> hope, anyway :)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Not going to go down the rabbit hole of origins of
>> Covid at this time,
>> >>>>> however I note that the Rupert Murdoch-owned
>> "Australian" was strongly
>> >>>>> promoting views by a Sky News Journalist (who wrote a
>> book on the same
>> >>>>> subject last year) that everything is a cover-up and
>> the virus escaped from
>> >>>>> the Wuhan Lab. I fact checked her first 4 statements
>> and they were all
>> >>>>> incorrect, after which I lost faith in her analysis.
>> For now I think the
>> >>>>> best summary is probably at
>> >>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FOrigin_of_COVID-19&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=D6Kflci%2FU5viaKUYoPBmu2nRifO0mIbHxvTSnfGXtxo%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FOrigin_of_COVID-19&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=D6Kflci%2FU5viaKUYoPBmu2nRifO0mIbHxvTSnfGXtxo%3D&reserved=0>,
>> which Taxacom
>> >>>>> readers are welcome to consult for more detail, or even
>> amend if they
>> >>>>> disagree with it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Regards - Tony
>> >>>>> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
>> >>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=z2m2LmiV2xLODA2jELvuffsiCm8v5%2BR%2Brf7I70mU21w%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=z2m2LmiV2xLODA2jELvuffsiCm8v5%2BR%2Brf7I70mU21w%3D&reserved=0>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 at 04:43, John
>> Grehan<calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> That's an interesting quote about not publishing in a
>> climate journal
>> >>>>>> for a climate paper: "This is a common avenue taken by
>> 'climate skeptics'
>> >>>>>> in order to avoid peer review by real experts in the
>> field." But just
>> >>>>>> because a climate paper is not published in a climate
>> journal does not mean
>> >>>>>> that it can avoid 'peer' review. It depends on the
>> journal and the intent
>> >>>>>> of the editor to ensure that proper peer review takes
>> place. If a climate
>> >>>>>> paper was published in Nature or Science, which are
>> not climate journals,
>> >>>>>> is this because the authors wished to avoid peer review?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:40 PM John
>> Grehan<calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thanks for that clarification Tony. As for Nature
>> "might have a
>> >>>>>>> higher degree of scrutiny" - who knows. Saw this as
>> yet unresolved issue
>> >>>>>>> below, this time involving Nature. I don't keep
>> regular track of such
>> >>>>>>> questions, although perhaps I should, and write
>> something on fraud in CODA
>> >>>>>>> biogeography - but then who would publish such?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> A growing number of people, including prominent
>> scientists, are
>> >>>>>>> calling for a full retraction of a high-profile study
>> published in the
>> >>>>>>> journal Nature in March 2020 that explored the
>> origins of SARS-CoV-2.
>> >>>>>>> The paper, whose authors included immunology and
>> microbiology
>> >>>>>>> professor Kristian G. Andersen, declared that
>> evidence clearly showed that
>> >>>>>>> SARS-CoV-2 did not originate from a laboratory.
>> >>>>>>> “Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a
>> laboratory
>> >>>>>>> construct or a purposefully manipulated virus,” the
>> authors wrote in
>> >>>>>>> February.
>> >>>>>>> Yet a trove of recently published documents reveal
>> that Andersen and
>> >>>>>>> his co-authors believed that the lab leak scenario
>> was not just possible,
>> >>>>>>> but likely.
>> >>>>>>> “[The] main thing still in my mind is that the lab
>> escape version of
>> >>>>>>> this is so friggin’ likely to have happened because
>> they were already doing
>> >>>>>>> this type of work and the molecular data is fully
>> consistent with that
>> >>>>>>> scenario,” Andersen said to his colleagues, according
>> to a report from
>> >>>>>>> Public, which published a series of Slack messages
>> between the authors.
>> >>>>>>> Anderson was not the only author who privately
>> expressed doubts that
>> >>>>>>> the virus had natural origins. Public cataloged
>> dozens of statements from
>> >>>>>>> Andersen and his co-authors—Andrew Rambaut, W. Ian
>> Lipkin, Edward C.
>> >>>>>>> Holmes, and Robert F. Garry—between the dates January
>> 31 and February 28,
>> >>>>>>> 2020 suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 may have been engineered.
>> >>>>>>> ” …the fact that we are discussing this shows how
>> plausible it is,”
>> >>>>>>> Garry said of the lab-leak hypothesis.
>> >>>>>>> “We unfortunately can’t refute the lab leak
>> hypothesis,” Andersen
>> >>>>>>> said on Feb. 20, several days after the authors
>> published their pre-print.
>> >>>>>>> To complicate matters further, new reporting from The
>> Intercept
>> >>>>>>> reveals that Anderson had an $8.9 million grant with
>> NIH pending final
>> >>>>>>> approval from Dr. Anthony Fauci when the Proximal
>> Origin paper was
>> >>>>>>> submitted.
>> >>>>>>> ‘Fraud and Scientific Misconduct’?
>> >>>>>>> The findings have led several prominent figures to
>> accuse the authors
>> >>>>>>> of outright deception.
>> >>>>>>> Richard H. Ebright, the Board of Governors Professor
>> of Chemistry and
>> >>>>>>> Chemical Biology at Rutgers University, called the
>> paper “scientific
>> >>>>>>> fraud.”
>> >>>>>>> “The 2020 ‘Proximal Origin’ paper falsely claimed
>> science showed
>> >>>>>>> COVID-19 did not have a lab origin,” tweeted Ebright.
>> “Newly released
>> >>>>>>> messages from the authors show they did not believe
>> the conclusions of the
>> >>>>>>> paper and show the paper is the product of scientific
>> fraud and scientific
>> >>>>>>> misconduct.”
>> >>>>>>> Ebright and Silver are among those pushing a petition
>> urging Nature
>> >>>>>>> to retract the article in light of these findings.
>> >>>>>>> Among those to sign the petition was Neil Harrison, a
>> professor of
>> >>>>>>> anesthesiology and molecular pharmacology at Columbia
>> University.
>> >>>>>>> “Virologists and their allies have produced a number
>> of papers that
>> >>>>>>> purport to show that the virus was of natural origin
>> and that the pandemic
>> >>>>>>> began at the Huanan seafood market,” Harrison told
>> The Telegraph. “In fact
>> >>>>>>> there is no evidence for either of these conclusions,
>> and the email and
>> >>>>>>> Slack messages among the authors show that they knew
>> at the time that this
>> >>>>>>> was the case.”
>> >>>>>>> Only ‘Expressing Opinions’?
>> >>>>>>> Dr. Joao Monteiro, chief editor of Nature, has
>> rebuffed calls for a
>> >>>>>>> retraction, The Telegraph notes, saying the authors
>> were merely “expressing
>> >>>>>>> opinions.”
>> >>>>>>> This claim is dubious at best. From the beginning,
>> the Proximal
>> >>>>>>> Origin study was presented as authoritative and
>> scientific. Jeremy Farrar,
>> >>>>>>> a British medical researcher and now the chief
>> scientist at the World
>> >>>>>>> Health Organization (WHO), told USA Today that
>> Proximal Origin was the
>> >>>>>>> “most important research on the genomic epidemiology
>> of the origins of this
>> >>>>>>> virus to date.”
>> >>>>>>> Dr. Anthony Fauci, speaking from the White House
>> podium in April
>> >>>>>>> 2020, cited the study as evidence that the mutations
>> of the virus were
>> >>>>>>> “totally consistent with a jump from a species of an
>> animal to a human.”
>> >>>>>>> Fact-check organizations were soon citing the study
>> as proof that COVID-19
>> >>>>>>> “could not have been manipulated.”
>> >>>>>>> Far from being presented as a handful of scientists
>> “expressing
>> >>>>>>> opinions,” the Proximal Origin study was treated as
>> gospel, a dogma that
>> >>>>>>> could not even be questioned. This allowed social
>> media companies (working
>> >>>>>>> hand-in-hand with government agencies) to censor
>> people who publicly stated
>> >>>>>>> what Andersen and his colleagues were saying
>> privately—that it seemed
>> >>>>>>> plausible that SARS-CoV-2 came from the laboratory in
>> Wuhan that
>> >>>>>>> experimented on coronaviruses and had a checkered
>> safety record.
>> >>>>>>> Indeed, even as media and government officials used
>> the Proximal
>> >>>>>>> Origin study to smear people as conspiracy theorists
>> for speculating that
>> >>>>>>> COVID-19 might have emerged from the Wuhan lab, a
>> Defense Intelligence
>> >>>>>>> Agency study commissioned by the government
>> questioned the study’s
>> >>>>>>> scientific rigor.
>> >>>>>>> “The arguments that Andersen et al. use to support a
>> natural-origin
>> >>>>>>> scenario for SARS CoV-2 are based not on scientific
>> analysis, but on
>> >>>>>>> unwarranted assumptions,” the now-declassified paper
>> concluded. “In fact,
>> >>>>>>> the features of SARS-CoV-2 noted by Andersen et al.
>> are consistent with
>> >>>>>>> another scenario: that SARS-CoV-2 was developed in a
>> laboratory…”
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:22 PM Tony
>> Rees<tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Hi John,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I took a look at the paper which is online and open
>> access. I must
>> >>>>>>>> say when I saw it at the time of original
>> publication I thought its main
>> >>>>>>>> conclusions very odd and at variance with almost all
>> other research on the
>> >>>>>>>> topic.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Just to be clear per your thread title - the paper
>> does not appear
>> >>>>>>>> in "Nature" (which I imagine might have a higher
>> degree of scrutiny), but
>> >>>>>>>> in "The European Physical Journal Plus" which is a
>> different outlet, albeit
>> >>>>>>>> from the same publisher.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Best - Tony
>> >>>>>>>> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
>> >>>>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=z2m2LmiV2xLODA2jELvuffsiCm8v5%2BR%2Brf7I70mU21w%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=z2m2LmiV2xLODA2jELvuffsiCm8v5%2BR%2Brf7I70mU21w%3D&reserved=0>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 at 03:59, John Grehan via Taxacom <
>> >>>>>>>> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Recently when I noted about ZooNova as a
>> publication option, a
>> >>>>>>>>> Taxacom
>> >>>>>>>>> colleague implied (oof list) that the journal was
>> dubious because he
>> >>>>>>>>> considered one (or more) papers to be dubious (in
>> that person's
>> >>>>>>>>> judgement).
>> >>>>>>>>> Here is a classic case of a 'Top' journal
>> retracting a paper,
>> >>>>>>>>> showing that
>> >>>>>>>>> the supposed 'prestige' of a journal has nothing
>> necessarily to do
>> >>>>>>>>> with its
>> >>>>>>>>> content. In this case it was picked up on because
>> the paper in
>> >>>>>>>>> question
>> >>>>>>>>> appears to have run afoul of a sufficient number of
>> prominent or
>> >>>>>>>>> influential researchers. In biogeography this does
>> not happen, as
>> >>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>> prominent (powerful and influential) players all
>> play to the fraud
>> >>>>>>>>> (that
>> >>>>>>>>> being the misrepresentation of what CODA methods
>> can or cannot do or
>> >>>>>>>>> support). Power is everything in science.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Top science publisher Springer Nature said it has
>> withdrawn a study
>> >>>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>> presented misleading conclusions on climate change
>> impacts after an
>> >>>>>>>>> investigation prompted by an AFP inquiry.
>> >>>>>>>>> AFP reported in September 2022 on concerns over the
>> peer-reviewed
>> >>>>>>>>> study by
>> >>>>>>>>> four Italian scientists that appeared earlier that
>> year in the
>> >>>>>>>>> European
>> >>>>>>>>> Physical Journal Plus, published by Springer Nature.
>> >>>>>>>>> The study had drawn positive attention from
>> climate-sceptic media.
>> >>>>>>>>> The paper, titled "A critical assessment of extreme
>> events trends
>> >>>>>>>>> in times
>> >>>>>>>>> of global warming", purported to review data on
>> possible changes in
>> >>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>> frequency or intensity of rainfall, cyclones,
>> tornadoes, droughts
>> >>>>>>>>> and other
>> >>>>>>>>> extreme weather events.
>> >>>>>>>>> Several climate scientists contacted by AFP said
>> the study
>> >>>>>>>>> manipulated
>> >>>>>>>>> data, cherry picked facts and ignored others that
>> would contradict
>> >>>>>>>>> their
>> >>>>>>>>> assertions, prompting the publisher to launch an
>> internal review.
>> >>>>>>>>> "The Editors and publishers concluded that they no
>> longer had
>> >>>>>>>>> confidence in
>> >>>>>>>>> the results and conclusions of the article,"
>> Springer Nature told
>> >>>>>>>>> AFP in an
>> >>>>>>>>> email late Wednesday.
>> >>>>>>>>> The journal's editors published an online note
>> stating that the
>> >>>>>>>>> paper was
>> >>>>>>>>> retracted due to concerns over "the selection of
>> the data, the
>> >>>>>>>>> analysis and
>> >>>>>>>>> the resulting conclusions".
>> >>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0>
>> (use the 'visit archived web
>> >>>>>>>>> site'
>> >>>>>>>>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> searched at:
>> >>>>>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wNhj%2BC5BOnYaBBfzogrL%2FRrmsGFIR0ckWA7gx87t8q8%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wNhj%2BC5BOnYaBBfzogrL%2FRrmsGFIR0ckWA7gx87t8q8%3D&reserved=0>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
>> >>>>>>>>> alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0>
>> (use the 'visit archived web
>> >>>>>>> site' link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0>
>> (use the 'visit archived web
>> >>>>>> site' link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0>
>> (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> >>>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0>
>> (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> >>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>> >>>
>> > --
>> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626096968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pLduaU89UMMyBh5guKyv2QEXJUQsZ37kE82l0JDgKSs%3D&reserved=0>
>> (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> > link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>> >
>> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions
>> to:taxacom at lists.ku.edu <mailto:to%3Ataxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe,
>> visit:https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>> <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
>> > You can reach the person managing the list
>> at:taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> <mailto:at%3Ataxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu>
>> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched
>> at:https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626253202%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=31pHMPeM31JsEFpWBjgcODv6d1b9M8QsEez7qntn3JQ%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626253202%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=31pHMPeM31JsEFpWBjgcODv6d1b9M8QsEez7qntn3JQ%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
>> alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>>
>> --
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>>
>> NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on
>> carriers
>>
>> US Post Office Address:
>> Montana Entomology Collection
>> Marsh Labs, Room 50
>> PO Box 173145
>> Montana State University
>> Bozeman, MT 59717
>> USA
>>
>> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
>> Montana Entomology Collection
>> Marsh Labs, Room 50
>> 1911 West Lincoln Street
>> Montana State University
>> Bozeman, MT 59718
>> USA
>>
>>
>> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
>> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
>> mivie at montana.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
>> <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626253202%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=31pHMPeM31JsEFpWBjgcODv6d1b9M8QsEez7qntn3JQ%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626253202%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=31pHMPeM31JsEFpWBjgcODv6d1b9M8QsEez7qntn3JQ%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
>> alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626253202%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WfT1FglRz2V9h1xE%2FD69iR7CiHIUtABxTSPd2%2Bl9q%2Fo%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626253202%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WfT1FglRz2V9h1xE%2FD69iR7CiHIUtABxTSPd2%2Bl9q%2Fo%3D&reserved=0> (use
>> the 'visit archived web site' link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research
>> page' link.
>
> --
> __________________________________________________
>
> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
> NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>
> US Post Office Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> PO Box 173145
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> USA
>
> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59718
> USA
>
>
> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> mivie at montana.edu
>
>
>
> --
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626253202%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WfT1FglRz2V9h1xE%2FD69iR7CiHIUtABxTSPd2%2Bl9q%2Fo%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbebce96868494f39f61c08dba4ec33ec%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638285106626253202%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WfT1FglRz2V9h1xE%2FD69iR7CiHIUtABxTSPd2%2Bl9q%2Fo%3D&reserved=0> (use
> the 'visit archived web site' link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research
> page' link.
--
__________________________________________________
Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box 173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA
UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA
(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu
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