Taxacom: open access journals

Wed Aug 2 01:38:36 CDT 2023

Hi Torbjorn,
You say: 'in my opinion OA publishing hasn’t really changed much. The
problems with high costs and that ”publication services" are not available
for everyone still remain, although now on a different basis'. But if all
the main journals charge the author 1000s to publish a paper there, that's
a big difference (unless you have institutional backing), as they've always
been free for the author. (*They *should be paying *us*, as with books, but
the top scientists who Robert Maxwell bought off to found the modern
science publishing ecosystem made sure that didn't happen).

On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 6:17 PM Torbjörn Tyler via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:

> Stephen,
>
> OK, then I understand your concerns, but in my case the OA fees are also
> payed collectively from the ”overhead”. In fact I think it is all handled
> by my university library so it isn’t much different from how subscription
> fees used to be (and still are in some cases) payed. Isn’t that normal for
> those institutions and countries that have ”OA licensing agreements” with
> the major scientific publishers?
>
> Now most institutions in the developed world are indeed covered by such
> agreements with e.g. Wiley, Springer and Elsevier, implying that OA fees
> are not payed for individual published papers or by individual authors but
> for the collective output from the whole department, institution or country.
>
> The remaining problem is those reserachers that work at institutions and
> in countries that cannot afford to pay for such agreements, but these are
> probably mostly the same as those who could not afford to pay for
> subscriptions in the past. For them there has been a change from not being
> able to read their own and their colleagues publications to not being able
> to publish themselves. Same, but different… Even worse for those, still
> quite many, advanced amateur taxonomists that are not formally employed at
> any research institution!
>
> To be honest, in my opinion OA publishing hasn’t really changed much. The
> problems with high costs and that ”publication services" are not available
> for everyone still remain, although now on a different basis. However, I
> cannot see any solution to this since high-quality ”publication services”
> will always be costly, someone has to pay these costs and nobody will
> volonteerely pay for those who cannot pay themselves… (I am aware of that
> the major publishers now offers various OA fee waivers for authors from
> developing countries, but I am afraid these will never change much in
> practice.)
>
> / Torbjörn
>
> 2 aug. 2023 kl. 00:19 skrev Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> <mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>:
>
> Torbjörn,
>
> By "research funding", I was referring to the 50% of an external grant
> that is left over after the institution has claimed the "overheads". Money
> for subscriptions comes out of the "overheads", by my understanding. OA
> fees, by contrast, come out of the research funding. That money would
> otherwise have been spent on research, rather than on publishing fees.
>
> Institutions still claim the 50% in "overheads", by my understanding. OA
> hasn't changed that. In fact, they still buy subscriptions, as far as I can
> tell, though that doesn't really matter, since they can do what they like
> with the "overheads". The point is that publishing costs are now subtracted
> from the research funding half of an external grant. It just seems a bit of
> a mystery who exactly benefits from this (other than OA publishers)!
>
> Stephen
>
> On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 at 10:51:26 pm NZST, Torbjörn Tyler <
> torbjorn.tyler at biol.lu.se<mailto:torbjorn.tyler at biol.lu.se>> wrote:
>
>
> So, from where in your opinion did that money come that used to pay for
> journal subscriptions if it did not come from research funding?
>
> I know that may differ between countries and institutions, but in general
> I believe subscriptions to scientific journals have always in one way or
> another been payed  from research budgets and in my world (Sweden, Lund
> University) ca 50% of all ”external” fundings that individual researchers
> obtain are payed as tax (”overhead”) to finance e.g. libraries and their
> journal subscription (among many other functions that are needed by all
> researchers alike and together).
>
> I don’t think it should have come as a surprise for anyone that a change
> from a reader-pay model to an author-pay model would not in itself reduce
> the total costs of publication and distribution of scientific texts. All
> costs associated with it, including editorial handling, scientific
> reviewing, checking for lingusitic errors and plagiarism etc, handling of
> copyright agreements and other legal and financial matters, copyediting,
> typesetting, distribution, advertising and archiving (in case of electronic
> publications), plus any economic revenue wanted by the owner of the
> journals, does remain the same no matter who pays for it! These costs are
> real and have to be payed by someone to keep quality and safety in the
> publishing process, unless someone volunteerely undertakes these duties for
> free but when researchers do things volunteerely it usually also implies a
> cost for the ”reasearch budget” since it usually means that they are
> performing these duties on times when they are actually payed for doing
> research or teaching… The only costs that may not be cosnidered ”real” are
> the revenues taken by commercial companies owning journals, but these we
> can all avoid by choosing journals owned by scientific societies and other
> non-profit organisations. However, the costs for publishing in journals
> owned by such non-profit organisations are commonly at (almost) the same
> level as for journals with commersial owners, suggesting that the profit
> taken by the latter may not be that huge anyway.
>
> Yours,
> Torbjörn TYler
>
> 1 aug. 2023 kl. 11:41 skrev Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at lists.ku.edu>>:
>
> Lyubo,
> Realistically, no matter how noble an original vision, the implementation
> is what matters. I'm not entirely convinced that OA was in any shape or
> form a noble original vision, but let's put that aside and focus on the
> implementation:
> Before OA, articles were published for free, but readers had to pay to
> read them. One of the problems was that institutions ended up paying
> publishers big money for subscriptions. That money did not however come out
> of research funding. Nevertheless, publishers like Elsevier were making
> vast profits. Few institutions bought subscriptions to obscure journals, so
> most readers had to rely on contacts to get hold of those, but it worked
> because relatively rew readers wanted to read articles from obscure
> journals. The community just handed around photocopies.
> Today, institutions still have to pay big subscriptions AND authors have
> to pay the publisher big money (for high impact journals) to get the
> articles published. This money does come out of research funding. The only
> difference is that now anyone can read the articles freely online. But for
> low interest articles, the OA fees are set too high. Given that most
> scientific articles (particularly in taxonomy) are low interest, the
> combined OA fees for all of them represents a significant chunk of research
> funding. Sure, some journals aren't very high impact and so charge lower OA
> fees, but they also tend to publish very prolifically, so the combined OA
> fees are still significant.
> It is just very hard to see exactly who benefits from this and how. Poorer
> countries, whose libraries cannot afford subscriptions, benefit from free
> reads of OA articles, but they also want to publish articles and also have
> less research funding to play with, so they won't want to publish OA. Maybe
> they can benefit from richer countries publishing OA, gaining free access
> to articles published in those richer countries. However, at least in
> taxonomy, it is unclear to what extent taxonomists in poorer countries need
> or benefit from free access to articles published in richer countries?
> Besides, this must be balanced by the reduction in research funding in the
> richer countries, due to them having to pay high OA fees. The cost benefit
> analysis is complex and, I think, largely unknown. The only thing that is
> clear is that publishers benefit from OA, particularly publishers of high
> impact journals and particularly while it is still necessary to buy
> subscriptions because not everything is OA and one also has the added
> complication of pre-OA literature which is still hidden behind paywalls.
> Institutions using external funding also benefit from strategic spending
> on OA fees. This can add to their corporate profits, but only at the cost
> of eating up funding that could otherwise have been used on doing research.
> In summary, it is clear that publishers and corporate research
> institutions benefit financially from OA, but very unclear who else
> benefits and how.
> Cheers, Stephen
>    On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 at 08:57:24 pm NZST, Lyubomir Penev <
> lyubo.penev at gmail.com<mailto:lyubo.penev at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Stephen,
> No offense at all, but I really try to separate the meaning and mission of
> the open access model from its various (mis)interpretations and (mis)uses.
> The increasing number of articles is not due to the appearance of open
> access as a model. It is not the publishers - you say they like to publish
> more and earn more (electric companies also like to do that by expanding
> their networks and volumes) - who are the reason for the ever growing
> number of articles. It is the scholarly evaluation system that forces
> researchers to publish more and more in "high" impact journals. Publishers
> use that to "sell" the "high" impact to researchers through their journals,
> independently of that are these open access, subscription-based or of
> various mixed models currently in place.
> You can't blame publishers for doing business just as you can't blame your
> local shop for doing business through delivering goods to you. The
> greediness in business, however, should be blamed, I agree.
> As said, the best solution is the gold open access model supported by
> institutions, societies or sponsors. The model is normally limited in
> volume per year, because the institutions cannot budget unpredictably and
> exponentially growing numbers of articles. As an example, more than half of
> the some 30 biodiversity journals in our own portfolio are free to read and
> free to publish. What bad in that the authors to have the choice where to
> publish?
> Best,Lyubo
>
> -----Lyubomir Penev
> ORCID: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0002-2186-5033&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370181339%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sIM99yyL81VSXWjbfYLqRg1D6c0fpdsgPsctwS4RgdU%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 11:15 AM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> <mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>> wrote:
>
> Hi Lyubo,Open Access is a big can of worms. You can claim that it makes
> scientific outputs more accessible to readers and indeed it does, but that
> just hides the "dark side". The main problem is that the vast majority of
> published scientific articles are of little or no relevance to most
> readers, but, collectively, there are a vast number of such low interest
> articles, so much that the combined OA fees subtract significantly from
> available research funding. Therefore, in actual fact, the general reader
> just gets free access to a vast number of articles that hardly anybody has
> any reason to read and the cost is less funding for actual research. The
> few readers who do have reason to read the average low interest paper can,
> most of the time, read them anyway via institutional subscriptions,
> subscriptions which have not been abandoned in the OA era (partly because
> OA is patchy rather than universal). So, many millions of dollars of
> research funding is being diverted to making low interest articles freely
> readable to a mere handful of potential readers! Sound like a good idea to
> you? Probably does, because you, as a publisher, get guaranteed revenue
> from each article published, even if nobody at all wants to read it! Hence,
> I have to doubt whether your views on the subject of OA can plausibly be
> taken as being unbiased! No offence intended, I'm just saying it as it
> is!Cheers, Stephen
>    On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 at 07:57:10 pm NZST, Lyubomir Penev <
> lyubo.penev at gmail.com<mailto:lyubo.penev at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Calling open access "Scam" sounds to me like blaming a religious system,
> sincerely preaching equality and love between people, for the actions of
> its followers, for example in politics (e.g. religious wars) or business
> (e.g. services around pilgrimage). The story of Journal of Biogeography
> isn't a rant against open access as a model but against excessive article
> processing charges and monopolization (or oligopolization) of the model.
> It is about inequality and double standards in human societies, not about
> the publishing model itself.
> So far I am aware about cases of boycotting high APC-based open access
> journals, however I've never heard about boycotting (=not reading, not
> citing) open access papers, even those published in most expensive
> journals. It is fully understandable that authors do not like to be charged
> for publishing, but I think they also do not like to be charged for, say,
> EURO 38.95 to access a paper published some 20 years ago.
> Open access was intended to provide equal access to scientific information
> to all and it did that. The price of it was to create the opposite source
> of inequality between people who can pay the APC and those who can't.
> The solution is probably to be found somewhere in-between as it often
> happens: a co-existence of various publishing models for the authors and
> communities to choose from and support to free-to-read-free-to-publish open
> access (meaning paid by institutions, societies or third parties) or low
> cost open access based on affordable and fair APCs.
> Best regards,Lyubomir
> -----Lyubomir Penev
> ORCID: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0002-2186-5033&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370181339%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sIM99yyL81VSXWjbfYLqRg1D6c0fpdsgPsctwS4RgdU%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 8:54 AM John Grehan via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at lists.ku.edu>> wrote:
>
> "  can't believe it has taken you guys so long to react to the Open Access
> Scam" Stephen - who are 'you guys'? I am not aware of anyone having their
> head in the sand over this issue.
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 6:35 PM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> <mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>
> wrote:
>
>
> I can't believe it has taken you guys so long to react to the Open Access
> Scam, which I have posted about here on Taxacom for years! There are two
> main factors involved. You have touched on the one to do with impact
> factor. Trying to include taxonomy into the broad area of impact factor
> metrics is entirely inappropriate. It leads to all sorts of problems, such
> as naming species after celebrities so as to generate publicity. The
> reality is that very few readers will be immediately interested in any one
> taxonomic article, but it is nevertheless a very valuable part of a much
> larger whole. You can build a very interesting house out of bricks, despite
> the fact that each individual brick is of low interest to anyone!
>
> The other factor with Open Access is to do with the strategic spending of
> external funding, by corporate research entities. Remember that they are
> spending other people's money, if it is external funding and the economics
> of spending other people's money is very different to the economics of
> spending one's own money. I can elaborate if anyone is interested.
>
> Stephen
> On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 at 09:19:34 am NZST, John Grehan via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at lists.ku.edu>> wrote:
>
>
> I will back up Lynn's comments, especially with respect to ZooNova
> (excellent outlet). I have also seen how 'newsletters' of some
> organizations (NZ Ent Soc, Lepidopterist Society) generate 'publications'
> that are just as good as any commercial product, and yet cost author's
> nothing. Sadly, I have at least one colleague with whom I collaborate ask
> that we publish co-authored papers in journals with 'high' indices because
> that is required of the 'employer' to help keep their job. It's a racket
> for sure.
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 4:52 PM Lynn Raw via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> <mailto:taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>
> wrote:
>
> In the article they say that quality publishing is expensive. That is
> only
> the case with paper publishing. Open Access is by its very nature an
> online
> only digital format far less expensive to provide than the older print
> journals and with no extra costs for colour. It seems the whole process
> of
> using citation and other indices rather than the actual quality of the
> content is a commercial profit driven hoax promoted by the publishers for
> the benefit of their executives and shareholders. It also gives
> university
> administrators numbers that they can understand whether or not they have
> any idea of the content. Even the highly esteemed Nature sometimes
> publishes suspect papers. Open access is the ideal low cost publishing
> system for societies as the only cost lies in the website maintenance and
> development, web server operation and maintenance of the domain
> registration.
> At the moment I am running a small scale OA journal at NO COST to the
> authors so the model can operate with the right support and volunteers
> whatever argument is given against it. Obviously it is not a commercial
> for
> profit model but it is something that can meet a need for both authors
> and
> users of scientific articles.
>
> Lynn Raw
> Independent Researcher & Editor
>
>
>
> On 31 Jul 2023, at 21.15, Michael Heads via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at lists.ku.edu>> wrote:
>
> I've criticised the new 'Open Access' publishing model for journals as
> a
> scam, and here's a new article in J. Biogeogr. against it (note that it
> doesn't mention publishing scientists who are amateur or retired):
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Fdoi%2F10.1111%2Fjbi.14697&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370181339%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=49C8gZYakzIKi%2B6i7K1Clqj1FAD1unvm2uR74fLEDJM%3D&reserved=0
> 'Shifts to open access with high article processing charges hinder
> research
> equity and careers'
>
> --
> Dunedin, New Zealand.
>
> My books:
>
> *Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC,
> Boca
> Raton FL. 2017.
>
>
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370181339%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qe2f8pLVyLov99HL84FIOuo3mPqkQVR07qEz%2FjcB330%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge
> University
> Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370181339%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0XEKhwpkie9dDeqownx9eMkOmYZjXKyslf7Ci5sDCks%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California
> Press,
> Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370181339%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Hef6a%2FEacGPpEEWD1Xw7KxgTVblVwgzcrMA%2Ffv0qjEQ%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University
> Press,
> New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370181339%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bBmVUDYm5hQxlaY1GT2sTy4WE3lhC1zipa%2FLfdI3jFE%3D&reserved=0
> <
>
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC%26dq%3Dpanbiogeography%26source%3Dgbs_navlinks_s&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370181339%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jrE9tZ1y7gi1ct6gLa%2Biz7qxp2hnk2JkiakJRsDPdMQ%3D&reserved=0
>
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
>
>
> --
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iICdmW39n9DfcE4yx%2F%2FVf4buF66BWUkZkDvUHf1okKg%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> <mailto:taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu>
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kubnqSVOXKnd6vCJbL17BJkkYG5CnSghEr7T8Bga4%2F4%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
>
>
> --
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iICdmW39n9DfcE4yx%2F%2FVf4buF66BWUkZkDvUHf1okKg%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu<mailto:
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> <mailto:taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu>
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kubnqSVOXKnd6vCJbL17BJkkYG5CnSghEr7T8Bga4%2F4%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu<mailto:
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> <mailto:taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu>
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kubnqSVOXKnd6vCJbL17BJkkYG5CnSghEr7T8Bga4%2F4%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Torbjörn Tyler, Ph.D,
>
> – Curator at herbarium LD.
> – Editor in Chief of Nordic Journal of Botany.
>
> – Responsible for the project The Hieracia of Sweden.
>
> Postal address:
> Botanical Museum
> Box 117
> SE-221 00 Lund
>
> Address for parcels and visitors:
> ArkivCentrum Syd
> Porfyrvägen 20
> SE-224 78 Lund
>
> tel. +46 (0)46-222 42 34 (automatically re-directing to my mobile)
>
>
> e-mail: torbjorn.tyler[at]biol.lu.se<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbiol.lu.se%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=V935qiyI2rTTF56BnaKq1S%2Bu9aYV%2BJ1voSIhyz8mc5g%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Private address: Enningervägen 12, SE-243 31 Höör (=Hoeoer), Sweden
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Torbjörn Tyler, Ph.D,
>
> – Curator at herbarium LD.
> – Editor in Chief of Nordic Journal of Botany.
>
> – Responsible for the project The Hieracia of Sweden.
>
> Postal address:
> Botanical Museum
> Box 117
> SE-221 00 Lund
>
> Address for parcels and visitors:
> ArkivCentrum Syd
> Porfyrvägen 20
> SE-224 78 Lund
>
> tel. +46 (0)46-222 42 34 (automatically re-directing to my mobile)
>
>
> e-mail: torbjorn.tyler[at]biol.lu.se<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbiol.lu.se%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=V935qiyI2rTTF56BnaKq1S%2Bu9aYV%2BJ1voSIhyz8mc5g%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Private address: Enningervägen 12, SE-243 31 Höör (=Hoeoer), Sweden
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kubnqSVOXKnd6vCJbL17BJkkYG5CnSghEr7T8Bga4%2F4%3D&reserved=0
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>

-- 
Dunedin, New Zealand.

My books:

*Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
Raton FL. 2017.
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=X5KAzGOvo1Ee66dKnE2yGL8vrcwnS6XPrGYvBqQk%2B9U%3D&reserved=0

*Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=U%2B%2Fmb9OkNpUSJ46xPZ6TwpYdBcxXYF9tYPuaMlUR7aE%3D&reserved=0

*Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WJmadGeMseaeqdeb9BpqzxYSsgHlx6ACBKA4sc8Gng8%3D&reserved=0

*Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Eo%2BFrdsGEo8JI2Il4mih%2FezuuxfgOf3KHwRuw2YHcik%3D&reserved=0
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC%26dq%3Dpanbiogeography%26source%3Dgbs_navlinks_s&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3f92f6b1694c4094d3ee08db93232285%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638265551370338117%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=N%2F1XEtAjP4%2Bjt7oPt8RvTOI%2F34%2FHMiZ7BlCcm3%2Bamno%3D&reserved=0>