Taxacom: open access journals

Tue Aug 1 03:57:10 CDT 2023

Hi Stephen,

No offense at all, but I really try to separate the meaning and mission of
the open access model from its various (mis)interpretations and (mis)uses.
The increasing number of articles is not due to the appearance of open
access as a model. It is not the publishers - you say they like to publish
more and earn more (electric companies also like to do that by expanding
their networks and volumes) - who are the reason for the ever growing
number of articles. It is the scholarly evaluation system that forces
researchers to publish more and more in "high" impact journals. Publishers
use that to "sell" the "high" impact to researchers through their journals,
independently of that are these open access, subscription-based or of
various mixed models currently in place.

You can't blame publishers for doing business just as you can't blame your
local shop for doing business through delivering goods to you. The
greediness in business, however, should be blamed, I agree.

As said, the best solution is the gold open access model supported by
institutions, societies or sponsors. The model is normally limited in
volume per year, because the institutions cannot budget unpredictably and
exponentially growing numbers of articles. As an example, more than half of
the some 30 biodiversity journals
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farphahub.com%2Fabout%2Fbrowse_journals%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rYzc%2Bwo7AChVBZQWQinPLzcnju%2BbhRNzKHCUEryyGGg%3D&reserved=0> in our own portfolio are free
to read and free to publish. What bad in that the authors to have the
choice where to publish?

Best,
Lyubo

-----
Lyubomir Penev
ORCID: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0002-2186-5033&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a0Q%2FG5wod9bRAgWTmTBO%2Bmu3kLW7ET4kNs2cX5pJTos%3D&reserved=0

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 11:15 AM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
wrote:

> Hi Lyubo,
> Open Access is a big can of worms. You can claim that it makes scientific
> outputs more accessible to readers and indeed it does, but that just hides
> the "dark side". The main problem is that the vast majority of published
> scientific articles are of little or no relevance to most readers, but,
> collectively, there are a vast number of such low interest articles, so
> much that the combined OA fees subtract significantly from available
> research funding. Therefore, in actual fact, the general reader just gets
> free access to a vast number of articles that hardly anybody has any reason
> to read and the cost is less funding for actual research. The few readers
> who do have reason to read the average low interest paper can, most of the
> time, read them anyway via institutional subscriptions, subscriptions which
> have not been abandoned in the OA era (partly because OA is patchy rather
> than universal). So, many millions of dollars of research funding is being
> diverted to making low interest articles freely readable to a mere handful
> of potential readers! Sound like a good idea to you? Probably does, because
> you, as a publisher, get guaranteed revenue from each article published,
> even if nobody at all wants to read it! Hence, I have to doubt whether your
> views on the subject of OA can plausibly be taken as being unbiased! No
> offence intended, I'm just saying it as it is!
> Cheers, Stephen
>
> On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 at 07:57:10 pm NZST, Lyubomir Penev <
> lyubo.penev at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Calling open access "Scam" sounds to me like blaming a religious system,
> sincerely preaching equality and love between people, for the actions of
> its followers, for example in politics (e.g. religious wars) or business
> (e.g. services around pilgrimage). The story of Journal of Biogeography
> isn't a rant against open access as a model but against excessive article
> processing charges and monopolization (or oligopolization) of the model.
>
> It is about inequality and double standards in human societies, not about
> the publishing model itself.
>
> So far I am aware about cases of boycotting high APC-based open access
> journals, however I've never heard about boycotting (=not reading, not
> citing) open access papers, even those published in most expensive
> journals. It is fully understandable that authors do not like to be charged
> for publishing, but I think they also do not like to be charged for, say,
> EURO 38.95 to access a paper published some 20 years ago.
>
> Open access was intended to provide equal access to scientific information
> to all and it did that. The price of it was to create the opposite source
> of inequality between people who can pay the APC and those who can't.
>
> The solution is probably to be found somewhere in-between as it often
> happens: a co-existence of various publishing models for the authors and
> communities to choose from and support to free-to-read-free-to-publish open
> access (meaning paid by institutions, societies or third parties) or low
> cost open access based on affordable and fair APCs.
>
> Best regards,
> Lyubomir
>
> -----
> Lyubomir Penev
> ORCID: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0002-2186-5033&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a0Q%2FG5wod9bRAgWTmTBO%2Bmu3kLW7ET4kNs2cX5pJTos%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 8:54 AM John Grehan via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> "  can't believe it has taken you guys so long to react to the Open Access
> Scam" Stephen - who are 'you guys'? I am not aware of anyone having their
> head in the sand over this issue.
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 6:35 PM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > I can't believe it has taken you guys so long to react to the Open Access
> > Scam, which I have posted about here on Taxacom for years! There are two
> > main factors involved. You have touched on the one to do with impact
> > factor. Trying to include taxonomy into the broad area of impact factor
> > metrics is entirely inappropriate. It leads to all sorts of problems,
> such
> > as naming species after celebrities so as to generate publicity. The
> > reality is that very few readers will be immediately interested in any
> one
> > taxonomic article, but it is nevertheless a very valuable part of a much
> > larger whole. You can build a very interesting house out of bricks,
> despite
> > the fact that each individual brick is of low interest to anyone!
> >
> > The other factor with Open Access is to do with the strategic spending of
> > external funding, by corporate research entities. Remember that they are
> > spending other people's money, if it is external funding and the
> economics
> > of spending other people's money is very different to the economics of
> > spending one's own money. I can elaborate if anyone is interested.
> >
> > Stephen
> > On Tuesday, 1 August 2023 at 09:19:34 am NZST, John Grehan via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I will back up Lynn's comments, especially with respect to ZooNova
> > (excellent outlet). I have also seen how 'newsletters' of some
> > organizations (NZ Ent Soc, Lepidopterist Society) generate 'publications'
> > that are just as good as any commercial product, and yet cost author's
> > nothing. Sadly, I have at least one colleague with whom I collaborate ask
> > that we publish co-authored papers in journals with 'high' indices
> because
> > that is required of the 'employer' to help keep their job. It's a racket
> > for sure.
> >
> > John Grehan
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 4:52 PM Lynn Raw via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In the article they say that quality publishing is expensive. That is
> > only
> > > the case with paper publishing. Open Access is by its very nature an
> > online
> > > only digital format far less expensive to provide than the older print
> > > journals and with no extra costs for colour. It seems the whole process
> > of
> > > using citation and other indices rather than the actual quality of the
> > > content is a commercial profit driven hoax promoted by the publishers
> for
> > > the benefit of their executives and shareholders. It also gives
> > university
> > > administrators numbers that they can understand whether or not they
> have
> > > any idea of the content. Even the highly esteemed Nature sometimes
> > > publishes suspect papers. Open access is the ideal low cost publishing
> > > system for societies as the only cost lies in the website maintenance
> and
> > > development, web server operation and maintenance of the domain
> > > registration.
> > > At the moment I am running a small scale OA journal at NO COST to the
> > > authors so the model can operate with the right support and volunteers
> > > whatever argument is given against it. Obviously it is not a commercial
> > for
> > > profit model but it is something that can meet a need for both authors
> > and
> > > users of scientific articles.
> > >
> > > Lynn Raw
> > > Independent Researcher & Editor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 31 Jul 2023, at 21.15, Michael Heads via Taxacom <
> > > taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've criticised the new 'Open Access' publishing model for journals
> as
> > a
> > > > scam, and here's a new article in J. Biogeogr. against it (note that
> it
> > > > doesn't mention publishing scientists who are amateur or retired):
> > > >
> > > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Fdoi%2F10.1111%2Fjbi.14697&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2Gr7zoKnX6id%2FMRx43u1e4ssb5XROg9ee6lhpvc80Io%3D&reserved=0
> > > > 'Shifts to open access with high article processing charges hinder
> > > research
> > > > equity and careers'
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dunedin, New Zealand.
> > > >
> > > > My books:
> > > >
> > > > *Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC,
> > Boca
> > > > Raton FL. 2017.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wXNTWOcjWOOB%2FVVBBrOboE8enMTDBsgp8wUCrOHQ9ds%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge
> > > University
> > > > Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EG9uSp1cuK0D0Np9yYss%2B08VW6oRnR9m4eMOMoNwfKc%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California
> > > Press,
> > > > Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xrAJ7BCMpamAnlWlJX8OuqLlrIbPmv%2B3N3qrN%2BFEegY%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University
> > Press,
> > > > New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
> > > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8rZnlSkAcvPNzwj2w5HcgKPAu7bl4Rd64uL1RBITMDQ%3D&reserved=0
> > > > <
> > >
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC%26dq%3Dpanbiogeography%26source%3Dgbs_navlinks_s&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EJSsopjegYPannSAM2jNm5HGEPTEXoANGF55FA%2FemVQ%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> > for
> > > about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> > >
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> > >
> > > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration
> for
> > > about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RbQuV15msEAfBuaaU9JaDl7Uct8w%2BKDdhD4O98w7YdA%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> > link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wx38Ylp4Dvndf1%2F05YOhUnl8iZBBlgNO6649qM2Rpuw%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> > about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >
>
>
> --
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C944ef991ce624333154a08db926d5296%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638264771126408412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RbQuV15msEAfBuaaU9JaDl7Uct8w%2BKDdhD4O98w7YdA%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> _______________________________________________
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>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
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> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
>