Taxacom: "Early Permian" angiosperms... real or not real taxa/names?

[Michael Heads]

Hi Tony,
'pteridosperms' are now generally accepted as a polyphyletic mess - in
practice the term just means 'early seed plant'. Many had 'flower-like'
structures, but if you don't have a precise idea of what a flower is, this
doesn't really help.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2022 at 7:35 AM Tony Rees via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
wrote:

> Thanks Paul... on that basis I will proceed with entering Wachtler's names
> into my system as "accepted" at this time (infers "validly published" in
> botany), until/unless they are either stated to be not validly published,
> or are synonymized, in later treatments.
>
> Reading a little further, I am now inclined to list them as unallocated
> pteridosperms: as per S.V. Naugolnykh, 2013, "New male reproductive organs
> of gymnosperms Permotheca colovratica sp. nov. from the Lower Permian of
> the Ural Mountains", Paleontological Journal, 2013, Vol. 47, No. 1, pp.
> 114–126 (available via researchgate), from the same locality and material;
> Permotheca colovratica and several others (but not the type species) is
> listed in Peltaspermales (Pterospermopsida) by J. Zhang et al., 2021, "The
> Eco-Plant model and its implication on Mesozoic dispersed sporomorphs for
> Bryophytes, Pteridophytes, and Gymnosperms", Review of Palaeobotany and
> Palynology. 293: 104503., doi: 10.1016/j.revpalbo.2021.104503
>
> Despite being claimed as an early angiosperm by Wachtler (p. 26), P.
> colovratica  has bisaccate in-situ pollen of the Falcisporites type (also
> some Alisporites) which is clearly gymnospermous; Alisporites is
> "considered to be characteristic of peltasperms in the broad sense (sensu
> Meyen, 1987) and mostly Late Paleozoic and Mesozoic conifers of the
> families Ullmanniaceae, Voltziaceae, and Podocarpaceae (Balme, 1995)"
> according to  Naugolnykh, p. 122. Naugolnykh also notes that "Pollen
> extracted from the sporangium of Permotheca colovratica sp. nov. is similar
> to disperse pollen grains (Pl. 2, figs. 2–4) abundant in the Permian
> deposits of the ForeUrals" -  in other words the stratigraphic distribution
> of the (apparently gymnosperm) "flowers" matches the stratigraphic
> distribution of the (gymnosperm) pollen grains with which they are
> associated (which Wachtler does not consider), not anything angiospermous
> (which latter might corroborate Wachtler's assignment/s, if found).
>
> Regards - Tony
>
> Naugolnykh's paper is well worth a look for an alternative view regarding
> the classification of these Early Permian, flower-like structures.
>
> Regards - Tony
>
> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
>
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>
> On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 at 02:45, Paul van Rijckevorsel via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > Yes, it seems likely that these names will squeeze by
> > from a nomenclatural viewpoint. Although a diagnosis
> > like "It has a compound of stamina with several
> > filaments and anthers grouped into a flower-structure"
> > by itself will be inadequate.
> >
> > In general, for nomenclature the exact taxonomic
> > position hypothesized by the author is of no importance.
> > If the conditions for valid publication are met, then it
> > does not matter if later it turns out that the author got
> > the taxonomy wrong, and that it concerns, say, animals
> > instead of plants. The name itself will stand, even if it
> > becomes clear that it does not stand for anything.
> >
> > Paul
> >
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