Taxacom: Kingdom Protista (protists)
Tony Rees
tonyrees49 at gmail.com
Mon Feb 14 12:31:25 CST 2022
That's fine Scott, if you will let us know where on Wikispecies you
continue this discussion, those of us interested can keep half an eye on
it...
Regards - Tony
On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 at 02:07, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Thanks everyone for all the responses,
>
> yes it is the overarching higher orders that are the major headache and is
> probably going to require a complete overhaul of the templates for this
> group. We are lucky to have about 270 editors at present but to my
> knowledge none of them specialise in this group, including me so it's been
> a difficulty for a really long time. If no one minds I may copy the
> responses here over to the wiki so editors can look through and we can plan
> it out.
>
> Cheers Scott
>
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:12 PM Tony Rees via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>> Ken's treatment as "Kingdom Protista" more-or-less coincides with what I
>> was using prior to moving to the "Protozoa, Chromista" approach of
>> Ruggiero
>> et al, 2015, based on the involvement of Cavalier-Smith I presume. I
>> wonder, given that Tom Cavalier-Smith is no longer on the scene, whether
>> an
>> upgrade of the Ruggiero et al. treatment (designed for use at Catalogue of
>> Life and therefore GBIF, etc.) might appear in which Kingdom Chromista is
>> no longer supported... in which case I will change back!
>>
>> The only problem I see with "Protista" is that it is traditionally
>> associated with single celled organisms, and some groups such as brown
>> algae (Chromista according to Cavalier-Smith) depart from that concept
>> fairly spectacularly... However I am prepared to treat them as "honorary
>> protists" (Margulis et al. would call them all "Protoctists" anyway) if
>> that is required.
>>
>> As you can see I am not averse to a spot of paraphyly when expedient.
>> After
>> all we are all fishes, aren't we, and fishes are all amoebas (or maybe
>> choanoflagellates, or something)...
>>
>> Regards - Tony
>> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C69def6ac3fe04b935cd008d9efe83f83%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637804603047068256%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=1A03tvFECBfIKVLgZ28sggRkcSoNO%2B8MX5c%2FerHT6sE%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irmng.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C69def6ac3fe04b935cd008d9efe83f83%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637804603047068256%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=tqMfi8maTDGyyk3O%2FCkaa7CrrPU6HoBcTG%2BZHLKvd%2Bw%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 16:47, Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi All,
>> > I haven't worked on my Kingdom Protista classification for a
>> > while. But what I used to call Phylum Choanozoa (sensu lato) would
>> > probably best be called Archaeopisthokonta since it gave rise to the two
>> > major kingdoms of opisthokonts (Animalia and Eumycota/Fungi). It is
>> marked
>> > %% since it is doubly paraphyletic. Phylum Chlorophyta% is singly
>> > paraphyletic (giving rise to one Kingdom Metaphyta (Embryophyta).
>> > Everything else in the classification below is cladistic (coded with the
>> > numbers and letters to the left). Although I am heavily influenced by
>> > Cavalier-Smith's research (and his producing classifications with
>> limited
>> > paraphyly), I prefer to mark paraphyletic groups with a % symbol rather
>> > than a simple *, since a paraphyletic group is just a basal percentage
>> of a
>> > larger clade.
>> >
>> > KINGDOM PROTISTA%%%
>> > 1 Euglenozoa
>> > 2A Percolozoa
>> > B Loukozoa
>> > C Metamonada
>> > 3A Amoebozoa
>> >
>> > B Breviatea
>> > C Apusozoa
>> > D "Archeopisthokonta" (Choanazoa sensu lato)%%
>> > _a_ {{Kingdom EUMYCOTA}} (true fungi)
>> > _b_ {{Kingdom METAZOA, aka ANIMALIA}}
>> > 4A Glaucophyta
>> > B Rhodophyta
>> > C Chlorophyta%
>> > _a_ {{Kingdom METAPHYTA}} (embryophytes)
>> > 5A Cryptista (cryptophytes)
>> > B Haptista (haptophytes)
>> > 6 Rhizaria
>> > 7 Heterokonta (stramenopiles)
>> > 8 Ciliophora
>> > 9 Dinozoa (or Dinophyta)
>> > 10 Sporozoa
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------
>> > NOTES:
>> >
>> > Clade 3D is Opisthokonta.
>> >
>> > Clade 3 is Unikonta,
>> >
>> > Clade 4 is Archaeplastida,
>> >
>> > Clade 5 is Hacrobia.
>> >
>> > Clades 6-10 make up the "SAR" clade.
>> >
>> > Clades 5-10 might be called Chromista "sensu lato".
>> >
>> > Clades 4-10 form the Bikonta (aka Photokaryota or Diaphoretickes) clade.
>> >
>> > Clades 3-10 form Cavalier-Smith's "Neozoa";
>> >
>> > Clades 2-10 form Cavalier-Smith's "neokaryotes".
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> > *From:* Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of Tony Rees
>> via
>> > Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 5:00 PM
>> > *To:* Alastair Simpson <Alastair.Simpson at dal.ca>
>> > *Cc:* taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> > *Subject:* Re: Taxacom: Protists
>> >
>> > So Alastair, if you were (e.g.) Catalogue of Life or other, and in need
>> of
>> > a "management classification" that works top down (not necessarily
>> > kingdom-Phylum-Class-Order, but equivalents would be useful), how would
>> you
>> > cast the Protist section of the Adl et al. treatment? E.g. would you
>> have a
>> > "kingdom" Protista (noting that this term appears nowhere in the Adl et
>> al.
>> > treatment), or if not, what should be used in its place? Would there be
>> a
>> > lot of smaller groups unplaced in "Biota"...
>> >
>> > Just asking because CoL would not be alone in needing a "management
>> > classification", the same applying to e.g. GBIF, ITIS, WoRMS, NBII,
>> > Wikipedia, Wikispecies and many more including numerous national species
>> > recording initiatives, to name but a few.
>> >
>> > My feeling always used to be to avoid "kingdom Chromista" for that
>> portion
>> > of the protists but I moved to it-somewhat reluctantly- in 2017 for CoL
>> > compatibility. Happy to see if there might be a better alternative
>> > available these days...
>> >
>> > Best - Tony
>> >
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irmng.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C69def6ac3fe04b935cd008d9efe83f83%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637804603047068256%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=tqMfi8maTDGyyk3O%2FCkaa7CrrPU6HoBcTG%2BZHLKvd%2Bw%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 10:02, Alastair Simpson <Alastair.Simpson at dal.ca>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Adl et al. 2019 has a few oddities, but generally will closer reflect
>> > > higher taxonomy of eukaryotes as accepted by protistologists writ
>> large
>> > > than will Ruggerio et al, 2015.
>> > >
>> > > For example, approximately no evolutionary/systematic protistologists
>> > > active today* use "Protozoa" as a taxon. One reason amongst many is
>> that
>> > > Opisthokonta is so widely accepted and is mutually incompatible with
>> > > treating Protozoa (or Protista!) as taxa.
>> > >
>> > > It also turns out that the evidence that Chromista is polyphyletic has
>> > > strengthened markedly in the last couple of years.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers
>> > > Alastair (Simpson)
>> > >
>> > > *Cavalier-Smith himself passed away last year
>> > >
>> >
>> >
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>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>>
>
>
> --
> Scott Thomson
>
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