Taxacom: Tropicos and gender of names

Tue Feb 8 00:42:01 CST 2022

and Hindi, Arabic...

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 6:44 PM Donald Hobern <dhobern at gbif.org> wrote:

> The main thing that is anomalous with our nomenclature is that the
> vocabulary we are dealing with is only partly Latin and often includes
> compound terms or special coinages that we arbitrarily declare to be nouns
> in apposition or adjectives or indeclinable sets of characters. This makes
> gender agreement for binomials unpredictable in all sorts of ways that
> aren't the case for actual Latin.
>
> And there are many taxonomists around the world who do not natively speak
> a Romance or even an Indo-European language and for whom such declension
> rules may be even more foreign than they are to those of us who may know or
> have learned one of the European languages you list.
>
> But the binomials with which I am directly hands-on are mostly for
> Lepidoptera, so I'm no longer on this particular carousel.
>
> Donald
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Donald Hobern - dhobern at gbif.org
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>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of Michael Heads
> via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 8, 2022 4:26 PM
> *To:* Sharkey, Michael J. <msharkey at uky.edu>
> *Cc:* taxacom at lists.ku.edu <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: Taxacom: Tropicos and gender of names
>
> many languages (Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, French, German etc.) have
> gender agreement - it's not inherently difficult or anomalous.   And it's
> unfair to blame the Victorians!
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 5:11 PM Sharkey, Michael J. via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > Does all of this discourse not make it obvious that gender agreement is a
> > Victorian era remnant that has no place in modern, machine-read, names?
> We
> > only need unique identifiers. Complete nonsense. Stick with the original
> > spelling regardless.
> >
> > Michael Sharkey
> > The Hymenoptera Institute
> > Professor Emeritus
> > University of Kentucky
> > (859) 396-1649
> > msharkey at uky.edu
> >
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sharkeylab.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=spmS8LlndsydcCjqYMgiNuncFal0%2Bn%2B2eom%2Bmy6zstU%3D&reserved=0
> > ________________________________
> > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of Douglas Yanega
> > via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 7:35 PM
> > To: Rafaël Govaerts <R.Govaerts at kew.org>; taxacom at lists.ku.edu <
> > taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Taxacom: Tropicos and gender of names
> >
> > CAUTION: External Sender
> >
> >
> > On 2/7/22 2:16 PM, Rafaël Govaerts wrote:
> > > Dear Doug,
> > > In Botany, the rule is that the original spelling should be maintained
> > > unless it is against one of the articles.
> > > So e.g.
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipni.org%2Fn%2F77142913-1&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dPCiHAi1zTc35BfnL4aCiRdbPUaKeiZqE%2BK3ou1eZe8%3D&reserved=0
> > > Zingiber tenuiscapus is not to be corrected to tenuiscapa as it is
> > > correct as a noun.
> > >
> > > If a choice is possible, e.g. "nanus" in a masculine genus is
> > > transferred to a feminine genus and if the author uses "nanus" then
> > > that is not correctable as he treats it as a noun. Subsequent authors
> > > must then follow that.
> > > Unless of course in the original publication it clearly indicated as
> > > an adjective.
> >
> > Apparently the Tropicos database does not follow this rule.
> >
> > Zingiber is treated there as neuter, and it does not list this species.
> > It does, however, list both "didymoglossa" and "didymoglossum" under
> > Zingiber, both citing the same author and date. There is also a
> > "longiglande" which is grammatically impossible, and likewise would
> > appear to be an automated algorithm changing all "-is" endings to "-e"
> > even if they are genitive noun forms like "glandis".
> >
> > Again, I was making two points: (1) not all resources are trustworthy,
> > nor do they yield consistent results (2) given this, we would do well to
> > place the burden of gender agreement on authoritative nomenclatural
> > registries, rather than individual taxonomists.
> >
> > >
> > > There are many published books indicating the gender of genera,
> > > perhaps the best known is
> > >
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bgbm.org%2FIAPT%2Fncu%2Fgenera%2FImprintRegVegNCU3.htm&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=4z93hCTyBSrxfXjJ5jipjq%2Fm%2FKmF7vC6P8ms5OyDPeQ%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > This seems like precisely the sort of resource I am advocating for all
> > organismal names. If all botanists agree to adhere to whatever it says
> > in this source, *and* the names there are immune from being disputed and
> > changed, then it is EXACTLY what I am advocating: an authoritative
> > nomenclatural registry.
> >
> > Peace,
> >
> > --
> > Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
> > Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314     skype: dyanega
> > phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
> >
> >
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> >    "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
> >          is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
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> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
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> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dunedin, New Zealand.
>
> My books:
>
> *Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
> Raton FL. 2017.
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DJGdDpTVE7KPNQlOWjxh7QDi40ul8gf%2FwgSXb8l5e9Q%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
> Press, Cambridge. 2014.
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=G8bp4jYSM5C5ckZaD45RxKI7%2BzSyHKBD9bVczdHo7Vc%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
> Berkeley. 2012.
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=NWfaXtcCqHxa2%2FgjIl5EplEEeQ8YWaXiSkAi1XHcbU0%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
> New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kN5wTbQiil%2BwtHIrz%2B8I3RLz9XiAjdvDhTdSLj8RY6c%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC%26dq%3Dpanbiogeography%26source%3Dgbs_navlinks_s&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=9hALxh3DQGVOdTyNbkV%2F%2FS52KUVcO9hXL70Xpn5R%2FHg%3D&reserved=0
> >
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 35 years, 1987-2022.
>

-- 
Dunedin, New Zealand.

My books:

*Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
Raton FL. 2017.
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DJGdDpTVE7KPNQlOWjxh7QDi40ul8gf%2FwgSXb8l5e9Q%3D&reserved=0

*Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=G8bp4jYSM5C5ckZaD45RxKI7%2BzSyHKBD9bVczdHo7Vc%3D&reserved=0

*Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=NWfaXtcCqHxa2%2FgjIl5EplEEeQ8YWaXiSkAi1XHcbU0%3D&reserved=0

*Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=04%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cbf2d431ddca64e022eef08d9eace239d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637798994564991997%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kN5wTbQiil%2BwtHIrz%2B8I3RLz9XiAjdvDhTdSLj8RY6c%3D&reserved=0
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