[Taxacom] [iczn-list] GENERAL CALL TO BATTLE

Wed Feb 10 13:52:55 CST 2021

When Garnett and Christidis published their paper several years ago on
taxonomic Governance there was a huge "up in arms" response by many people.
A number of authors published quite scathing responses to their paper.
Although they raised some valid points their tone and method achieved very
little. Here on this list and the ICZN list we developed a different
approach. 184 of us got together, including Thomas in this thread but many
others too, and wrote a significant response, detailed, addressing the
issues, correcting misconceptions etc. But what was also important was the
tone of it. I am very grateful to Richard Pyle who helped me lead that
paper.

In that paper we were conciliatory, we recognised their points, we valued
their views and suggested alternatives, compromises, explanations of why
they could or could not do aspects of what they had proposed. We kept it
polite, I said to the co-authors at the time it's important to debate
politely, present a viable alternative etc.

So what did that get us? It got cooperation, it got conciliation. It took
the governance onus off taxonomy as we all wanted and placed it in a more
appropriate place. The world is so fast now that somewhere there needed to
be some control over the lists of species being used in what we all know is
an environmental catastrophe. I do not think I actually remember the last
time I saw an insect hit my windscreen. We developed the IUBS Working Group
for Global Species Lists, Richard and I are both members as are Garnett and
Christidis, we are now all working together. Because we did not attack.

Clearly in the oher discussion I had some issues with the paper under
discussion. But I am not going to attack them. Anymore than I attack
PhyloCode. I acknowledged at the end of that discussion that it was
probably a useful technique particularly for mega diverse groups. To have a
constructive conversation and move forwards to a viable solution means
healthy and polite debate, compromise, and the building of good workable
ideas in good faith.

I suggest against any attempt to destroy opposing views you need to
cooperate and amalgamate them into a single view. That can only be done
with careful consideration and cooperation.

Cheers Scott

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 4:18 PM Admin Admin <archilegt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Thomas,
> I warned you a long time ago of what could happen, in person, and we
> discussed your views, in person. I know that your concern is " We are right
> now facing an alarming rate of destruction of our ecosystems". On the
> previous ICZN thread that brought the issue up, I also discussed and
> replied to the points that you raised right now, before you raised them.
> Maybe you missed that. I will repeat myself now:
>
> 1) I do not see that the ZooCode claims exclusivity over binomial names of
> animals. If molecular authors want to have binomial, pronounceable names,
> they can have them, just not under the ZooCode and not for the purposes of
> Zoological Nomenclature.
> 2) I do not see that there is any legal requirement telling that binomial
> names under the Code are the only ones to be applied as unique identifiers
> to operational taxonomic units worth of legal recognition and protection.
> 3) I do not see that studying ecological interactions among OTUs can only
> be done by using binomial names under the Code.
> 4) I do not see a problem with molecular authors anchoring species-rank
> taxonomic concepts, with specific epithets that are not Code-compliant, to
> genus-rank concepts which have a Code-compliant name.
>
> In summary, and I am not screaming, WE CAN APPLY BINOMIAL NAMES TO SPECIES
> FOR "STOPPING THE ALARMING RATE OF DESTRUCTION OF OUR ECOSYSTEMS", JUST NOT
> UNDER THE CODE.
>
> Cheers,
> Carlos
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:01 PM Thomas Pape <tpape at snm.ku.dk> wrote:
>
>> Dear Carlos,
>>
>> I appreciate your enthusiasm and energy, but I find your wording
>> excessively and unnecessarily divisive.
>>
>> We are right now facing an alarming rate of destruction of our
>> ecosystems, with dire consequences in terms of massive losses of species.
>> We should welcome any honest and serious attempt at embracing new
>> technologies to document what may soon be irrecoverably lost.
>>
>> We probably all agree that species may somehow be delimited or recognized
>> based on molecular data, and I am convinced that we all would be happy to
>> see massive amounts of sequence data obtained from carefully prepared and
>> meticulously documented voucher specimens.
>>
>> We need an open discussion on how to align the way we name species with
>> the strengths and shortcomings of molecular sequence data.
>> We need to be explicit and specific in which requirements we want for
>> scientific names to be validly proposed. Can molecular sequence data in
>> some form, but by themselves, be seen as "a description or definition that
>> states in words characters that are purported to differentiate" an animal
>> taxon? If not, what would be the minimal amount of elaboration needed to
>> make sequence data Code-compliant? Or should molecular data not take any
>> part in a Code-compliant "description or definition"?
>>
>> We may never come to full agreement across the Taxasphere, but sharing
>> our different views and suggestions is in my opinion a fruitful procedure.
>> A battle is not.
>>
>> /Thomas Pape
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Carlos
>> Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom
>> Sent: 10. februar 2021 17:34
>> To: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Subject: [Taxacom] GENERAL CALL TO BATTLE
>>
>>  ***GENERAL CALL TO BATTLE***
>> Calling all Zoological Taxonomists to Battle!
>> Dear friends and colleagues,
>> We are going to need as much help as possible to fight the attempts of
>> Michael Sharkey, Daniel Janzen, Paul Herbert, and others to override the
>> ZooCode and to overwrite 250+ years of Zoological Taxonomy.
>> If you are willing to contribute your arguments and expertise to a
>> response paper, please contact me.
>> Those of you who might not be aware of this serious issue, please check:
>> 1) Meierotto et al. (2019): A revolutionary protocol to describe
>> understudied hyperdiverse taxa and overcome the taxonomic impediment.
>> Deutsche Entomologische Zeitschrift, 66 (2): 119-145.
>>
>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.3897%2Fdez.66.34683&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7Cee5633a991a7482f6def08d8cde62cfe%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637485735767274676%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=aeCRCezA5QrPbnGXNbetMjKOSnb%2Fjg5GU8yv0Xji9%2Fk%3D&reserved=0
>> 2) Sharkey et al. (2021): Minimalist revision and description of 403 new
>> species in 11 subfamilies of Costa Rican braconid parasitoid wasps,
>> including host records for 219 species. ZooKeys, 1013: 1-665.
>>
>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.3897%2Fzookeys.1013.55600&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7Cee5633a991a7482f6def08d8cde62cfe%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637485735767274676%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=MMqHYguA9UzpeDMnLfl9S%2Bl1GyYi38flhldM4ojPuII%3D&reserved=0
>> See also a reply to Meierotto et al. (2019):
>> 3) Zamani et al. (2021): The omission of critical data in the pursuit of
>> ‘revolutionary’ methods to accelerate the description of species.
>> Systematic Entomology, 46: 1-4.
>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1111%2Fsyen.12444&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7Cee5633a991a7482f6def08d8cde62cfe%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637485735767274676%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=JHx67qjPWUU7pXGuKWFIonf%2Bf4H1Bpk3ParCOlD4meo%3D&reserved=0
>> We need as much help as possible! Please, share widely and invite others
>> to contribute! Let this be the hour when we draw swords together!
>>
>> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
>> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
>> FI-20014 University of Turku
>> Finland
>> Myriatrix <
>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7Cee5633a991a7482f6def08d8cde62cfe%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637485735767274676%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=W3OmbF%2BvvsBDL%2BLuABCdtQNNvVoTgYNj3NV6Z%2BtYhTs%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> ResearchGate profile
>> <
>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7Cee5633a991a7482f6def08d8cde62cfe%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637485735767274676%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=U8rSJC0SYre7G3kQu4vjSylWfchykhGHowhBm4W6BEs%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
>> <
>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F205802113162102%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7Cee5633a991a7482f6def08d8cde62cfe%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637485735767274676%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=4V6waJWSrOM5OMMW%2BW7cSefHgrjvTP%2Fs8AdjqpObiG4%3D&reserved=0
>> >
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-- 
Scott Thomson

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