[Taxacom] [EXT] Re: NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression and censorship of science

Thu Aug 12 13:17:53 CDT 2021

Hi Igor. Nomenclature is a set of arbitrary rules, so of course  it
suppresses anything that does not conform. Science is supposed to be a
process of discovery through methodology and in theory, at least, should
not entail suppression of competing research programs. But you are right,
suppression does occur in science, usually as a hidden hand. But here it is
in the open and directed against panbiogeography.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM igor pavlinov <ipvl2008 at mail.ru> wrote:

> John,
>
> this is just to remind you that any professional scientific activity is
> full of such suppression. The most illustrative example most close to me
> due to my current activity is provided by the Nomenclature Codes. For
> instance, all traditional codes suppress taxa not allocated to any
> officially recognized rank categories, and in particular,  zoological
> code suppress infrasubspecific taxa. Besides, it suppresses hypothetical
> taxa, which looks especially funny, providing that all scientific
> (non-dogmatic) knowledge is hypothetical.
>
> The thing is that all the codes, with all their suppressive rulings, have
> been approved officially by respective societies evidently agreeing with
> such clauses.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Igor
>
>
> - - -
> Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> 125009 Moscow
> Russia
> http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
> http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
>
>
>
> Четверг, 12 августа 2021, 13:01 +03:00 от John Grehan via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:
>
> Jason - of course it's a point of view - a point of view that it is OK to
> call for suppression or censorship as an acceptable practice in science.
> Nothing new in that of course. This history of science is replete with such
> attitudes (that opposing perspectives should not be published) and there is
> a long history of this against panbiogeography (which is why Croizat
> resorted to publishing privately for some of his works). As for the NZ
> Royal Society - it does have power - the power to at least denounce such
> views as being antithetical to its ethics principles (otherwise why have
> such principles in the first place?) or its avowed goal to "support New
> Zealanders to explore, discover and share knowledge." Waters et al darned
> well do not believe in the goal, unless it is their view of what this
> 'knowledge' is, and the Society has since endorsed that perspective as
> making a mockery of the Society's purported stance on science and
> knowledge. And in this instance the Society is not supporting New
> Zealanders to explore, discover and share knowledge if they are
> panbiogeographers.
>
> As for power, yes the Society does have the power to admonish its members,
> or decline to include members who do not follow the ethics principles of
> the Society (otherwise why have any ethics at all, and why even go through
> the charade of addressing a complaint concerning the lack of adherence to
> those principles?). As for a 'dig', I am not aware of any such. I will
> repeat my original notice - that the Society's support for its members
> declaration of censorship and suppression is a truly astonishing policial
> decision, and one that stands out as perhaps the first public
> declaration by a scientific society - at least within 'modern times
> (although I would not be surprised to find other instances in the past - I
> wonder if there are examples of scientific societies opposing publication
> of evolutionary theory in the early days?).
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 5:34 AM JF Mate via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <http:///compose?To=taxacom@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>
> wrote:
>
> > But John, the RSNZ has no power over them and they sure as hell can't
> > punish them. Do you think the solution is a punitive scientific society?
> We
> > have already talked about this before in situations regarding taxonomic
> > malpractice and the powers of the ICZN. In both cases they are not cops
> nor
> > judges and you don't want them to either. The article is a POV, write a
> > counterargument which is the proper way to address this. Or ignore them,
> > which is what I did with your ending dig ;)
> >
> > J
> >
> > On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 13:01, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com
> <http:///compose?To=calabar.john@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Jason,
> > >
> > > Sure they are free to do so. Point is that they do so. Their paper is
> > > historically significant as an open admission that they would like to
> see
> > > suppression or censorship of an opposing research program and the NZ
> > Royal
> > > Society has subsequently accepted that approach to science as
> > > compatible with their ethics principles. Of course anyone is free to
> call
> > > for suppression and censorship in science, but it's not something I
> find
> > > acceptable, whether or not directed to a research field with which I
> have
> > > sympathy. Even though I think most of the dispersalist biogeography is
> a
> > > load of junk I would never engage in efforts to suppress or censor
> > > opportunities for supporters to publish.
> > >
> > > Cheers, John
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 9:29 PM JF Mate via Taxacom <
> > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <http:///compose?To=taxacom@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The authors (Water et al 2013) are free to call for rejection of
> > >> panbiogeography papers but since its publication panbiogeography
> papers
> > >> have continued to be published. I don't understand what you want the
> > panel
> > >> to do, punish the author's? Sure, calling for banning raises an
> eyebrow
> > >> but
> > >> you can't suppress them. You can argue against them.
> > >>
> > >> J
> > >>
> > >> On Tue., 10 Aug. 2021, 09:17 John Grehan via Taxacom, <
> > >> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <http:///compose?To=taxacom@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Mary,
> > >> >
> > >> > this is not about rejection of a paper. This was about the Society
> > >> > establishing a Panel to respond to a complaint that some of their
> > >> members
> > >> > acted in ways contrary to their ethics by calling for suppression
> and
> > >> > censorship of a research program they opposed (that research program
> > >> being
> > >> > panbiogeography). That panel found nothing wrong with their members
> > >> calling
> > >> > for suppression or censorship and the Society leadership did not
> > contest
> > >> > that finding and has taken no further action. Thus, I am correct
> that
> > >> the
> > >> > Royal Society of New Zealand has failed to object to calls by some
> of
> > >> its
> > >> > members for censorship and suppression of panbiogeography. Thus the
> > >> Royal
> > >> > Society of NZ effectively endorsed that view no matter how anyone
> may
> > >> wish
> > >> > to parse that.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 6:46 PM Mary Barkworth via Taxacom <
> > >> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <http:///compose?To=taxacom@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > A panel to evaluate a complaint is a far cry from "[endorsing]
> calls
> > >> for
> > >> > > suppression and censorship as being compatible with the Society's
> > >> ethics
> > >> > > policy. It simply means that if someone wants to complain about
> > >> rejection
> > >> > > of their manuscript or whatever, their complaint will be reviewed
> > by a
> > >> > > panel rather than being automatically accepted, dismissed, or
> > >> referred to
> > >> > > the same individual who made the decision that is being appealed.
> > >> > > Mary
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <http:///compose?To=taxacom%2dbounces@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> On Behalf Of
> > John
> > >> > > Grehan via Taxacom
> > >> > > Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 4:33 PM
> > >> > > To: Peter A Rauch <peterar at berkeley.edu
> <http:///compose?To=peterar@berkeley.edu>>
> > >> > > Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <http:///compose?To=taxacom@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>
> > >> > > Subject: [EXT] Re: [Taxacom] NZ Royal Society fails to object to
> > >> > > suppression and censorship of science
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I mentioned earlier that I would provide the R Soc Panel document
> to
> > >> > > anyone who asks (and will send to Peter next). Point is that the
> > >> Society
> > >> > > set up the panel to 'evaluate' a complaint. The Panel denied any
> > >> conflict
> > >> > > with the Society's ethics and recommended no further action. That
> is
> > >> the
> > >> > > Society conclusion. Thus the Society, through its Panel, has
> > >> effectively
> > >> > > endorsed calls for suppression and censorship as being compatible
> > with
> > >> > the
> > >> > > Society's ethics policy.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > John Grehan
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 6:18 PM Peter A Rauch <
> peterar at berkeley.edu <http:///compose?To=peterar@berkeley.edu>>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > John pointed to the published paper by Waters et al., Syst.
> Biol.,
> > >> as
> > >> > > > the stimulus for his comments, and states [*emphasis* mine]:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > "... now the Royal Society Te Apārangi (New Zealand) has trashed
> > its
> > >> > > > slogan "We support New Zealanders to explore, discover and share
> > >> > > > knowledge" *by providing endorsement of suppression and
> censorship
> > >> by
> > >> > > > their members through a Panel that concluded that there was
> > nothing
> > >> > > > wrong for their members to do this*.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I'm still missing the point he apparently wants to make (about
> the
> > >> > > > RSTA's
> > >> > > > Panel) because I don't know (John didn't provide?) what that
> Panel
> > >> > > > actually wrote ("concluded"), nor what the RSTA wrote (to
> > "endorse"
> > >> > > > the Panel's "conclusions").
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Peter R
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 3:06 PM John Grehan via Taxacom <
> > >> > > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <http:///compose?To=taxacom@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> Some of you may recall that some years ago several researchers
> > >> > > >> published a paper in Systematic Biology in which they called
> for
> > >> the
> > >> > > >> suppression and censorship of a research program they opposed.
> > That
> > >> > > >> they felt it was OK for scientists to openly admit to such
> > >> practices
> > >> > > >> is shocking enough, but now the Royal Society Te Apārangi (New
> > >> > > >> Zealand) has trashed its slogan "We support New Zealanders to
> > >> > > >> explore, discover and share knowledge" by providing endorsement
> > of
> > >> > > >> suppression and censorship by their members through a Panel
> that
> > >> > > >> concluded that there was nothing wrong for their members to do
> > >> this.
> > >> > > >> Perhaps others on Taxacome feel the same way, that it is OK for
> > >> > > >> scientists to actively engage in suppression. To me it is
> > >> horrifying,
> > >> > > >> but perhaps I am in an ethical minority. Boggles the mind.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> John Grehan
> > >> > > >> _______________________________________________
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