[Taxacom] [EXT] Re: NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression and censorship of science

Thu Aug 12 10:32:50 CDT 2021

The ICZN does not regulate infrasubspecific names. That's all. Do with them what you want. Use them or not, there is no suppression, just no regulation. The Loch Ness monster was named. The name exists. It was not suppressed, it is just not an available name in zoological nomenclature.
Frank

Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell

Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief
Commissioner and Councillor, International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature
Department of Zoology
Denver Museum of Nature & Science
2001 Colorado Blvd
Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
Frank.krell at dmns.org
Phone 303.370.8244
Fax 303.331.6492
https://www.dmns.org/science/zoology/staff/frank-krell/

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-----Original Message-----
From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> On Behalf Of igor pavlinov via Taxacom
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:26 AM
To: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
Cc: Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] [EXT] Re: NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression and censorship of science

John,

this is just to remind you that any professional scientific activity is full of such suppression. The most illustrative example most close to me due to my current activity is provided by the Nomenclature Codes. For instance, all traditional codes suppress taxa not allocated to any officially recognized rank categories, and in particular,  zoological code suppress infrasubspecific taxa. Besides, it suppresses hypothetical taxa, which looks especially funny, providing that all scientific (non-dogmatic) knowledge is hypothetical.

The thing is that all the codes, with all their suppressive rulings, have been approved officially by respective societies evidently agreeing with such clauses.

Cheers,

Igor

- - -
Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
125009 Moscow
Russia
http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm

>Четверг, 12 августа 2021, 13:01 +03:00 от John Grehan via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:
> 
>Jason - of course it's a point of view - a point of view that it is OK 
>to call for suppression or censorship as an acceptable practice in science.
>Nothing new in that of course. This history of science is replete with 
>such attitudes (that opposing perspectives should not be published) and 
>there is a long history of this against panbiogeography (which is why 
>Croizat resorted to publishing privately for some of his works). As for 
>the NZ Royal Society - it does have power - the power to at least 
>denounce such views as being antithetical to its ethics principles 
>(otherwise why have such principles in the first place?) or its avowed 
>goal to "support New Zealanders to explore, discover and share 
>knowledge." Waters et al darned well do not believe in the goal, unless 
>it is their view of what this 'knowledge' is, and the Society has since 
>endorsed that perspective as making a mockery of the Society's 
>purported stance on science and knowledge. And in this instance the 
>Society is not supporting New Zealanders to explore, discover and share 
>knowledge if they are panbiogeographers.
>
>As for power, yes the Society does have the power to admonish its 
>members, or decline to include members who do not follow the ethics 
>principles of the Society (otherwise why have any ethics at all, and 
>why even go through the charade of addressing a complaint concerning 
>the lack of adherence to those principles?). As for a 'dig', I am not 
>aware of any such. I will repeat my original notice - that the 
>Society's support for its members declaration of censorship and 
>suppression is a truly astonishing policial decision, and one that 
>stands out as perhaps the first public declaration by a scientific 
>society - at least within 'modern times (although I would not be 
>surprised to find other instances in the past - I wonder if there are 
>examples of scientific societies opposing publication of evolutionary theory in the early days?).
>
>Cheers, John
>
>On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 5:34 AM JF Mate via Taxacom < 
>taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu > wrote:
> 
>> But John, the RSNZ has no power over them and they sure as hell can't 
>> punish them. Do you think the solution is a punitive scientific 
>> society? We have already talked about this before in situations 
>> regarding taxonomic malpractice and the powers of the ICZN. In both 
>> cases they are not cops nor judges and you don't want them to either. 
>> The article is a POV, write a counterargument which is the proper way 
>> to address this. Or ignore them, which is what I did with your ending 
>> dig ;)
>>
>> J
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 13:01, John Grehan < calabar.john at gmail.com > wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Jason,
>> >
>> > Sure they are free to do so. Point is that they do so. Their paper 
>> > is historically significant as an open admission that they would 
>> > like to see suppression or censorship of an opposing research 
>> > program and the NZ
>> Royal
>> > Society has subsequently accepted that approach to science as 
>> > compatible with their ethics principles. Of course anyone is free 
>> > to call for suppression and censorship in science, but it's not 
>> > something I find acceptable, whether or not directed to a research 
>> > field with which I have sympathy. Even though I think most of the 
>> > dispersalist biogeography is a load of junk I would never engage in 
>> > efforts to suppress or censor opportunities for supporters to publish.
>> >
>> > Cheers, John
>> >
>> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 9:29 PM JF Mate via Taxacom <  
>> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu > wrote:
>> >
>> >> The authors (Water et al 2013) are free to call for rejection of 
>> >> panbiogeography papers but since its publication panbiogeography 
>> >> papers have continued to be published. I don't understand what you 
>> >> want the
>> panel
>> >> to do, punish the author's? Sure, calling for banning raises an 
>> >> eyebrow but you can't suppress them. You can argue against them.
>> >>
>> >> J
>> >>
>> >> On Tue., 10 Aug. 2021, 09:17 John Grehan via Taxacom, <  
>> >> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Mary,
>> >> >
>> >> > this is not about rejection of a paper. This was about the 
>> >> > Society establishing a Panel to respond to a complaint that some 
>> >> > of their
>> >> members
>> >> > acted in ways contrary to their ethics by calling for 
>> >> > suppression and censorship of a research program they opposed 
>> >> > (that research program
>> >> being
>> >> > panbiogeography). That panel found nothing wrong with their 
>> >> > members
>> >> calling
>> >> > for suppression or censorship and the Society leadership did not
>> contest
>> >> > that finding and has taken no further action. Thus, I am correct 
>> >> > that
>> >> the
>> >> > Royal Society of New Zealand has failed to object to calls by 
>> >> > some of
>> >> its
>> >> > members for censorship and suppression of panbiogeography. Thus 
>> >> > the
>> >> Royal
>> >> > Society of NZ effectively endorsed that view no matter how 
>> >> > anyone may
>> >> wish
>> >> > to parse that.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 6:46 PM Mary Barkworth via Taxacom <  
>> >> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > A panel to evaluate a complaint is a far cry from "[endorsing] 
>> >> > > calls
>> >> for
>> >> > > suppression and censorship as being compatible with the 
>> >> > > Society's
>> >> ethics
>> >> > > policy. It simply means that if someone wants to complain 
>> >> > > about
>> >> rejection
>> >> > > of their manuscript or whatever, their complaint will be 
>> >> > > reviewed
>> by a
>> >> > > panel rather than being automatically accepted, dismissed, or
>> >> referred to
>> >> > > the same individual who made the decision that is being appealed.
>> >> > > Mary
>> >> > >
>> >> > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > > From: Taxacom < taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu > On Behalf 
>> >> > > Of
>> John
>> >> > > Grehan via Taxacom
>> >> > > Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 4:33 PM
>> >> > > To: Peter A Rauch < peterar at berkeley.edu >
>> >> > > Cc: taxacom < taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu >
>> >> > > Subject: [EXT] Re: [Taxacom] NZ Royal Society fails to object 
>> >> > > to suppression and censorship of science
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I mentioned earlier that I would provide the R Soc Panel 
>> >> > > document to anyone who asks (and will send to Peter next). 
>> >> > > Point is that the
>> >> Society
>> >> > > set up the panel to 'evaluate' a complaint. The Panel denied 
>> >> > > any
>> >> conflict
>> >> > > with the Society's ethics and recommended no further action. 
>> >> > > That is
>> >> the
>> >> > > Society conclusion. Thus the Society, through its Panel, has
>> >> effectively
>> >> > > endorsed calls for suppression and censorship as being 
>> >> > > compatible
>> with
>> >> > the
>> >> > > Society's ethics policy.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > John Grehan
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 6:18 PM Peter A Rauch < 
>> >> > > peterar at berkeley.edu >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > John pointed to the published paper by Waters et al., Syst. 
>> >> > > > Biol.,
>> >> as
>> >> > > > the stimulus for his comments, and states [*emphasis* mine]:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > "... now the Royal Society Te Apārangi (New Zealand) has 
>> >> > > > trashed
>> its
>> >> > > > slogan "We support New Zealanders to explore, discover and 
>> >> > > > share knowledge" *by providing endorsement of suppression 
>> >> > > > and censorship
>> >> by
>> >> > > > their members through a Panel that concluded that there was
>> nothing
>> >> > > > wrong for their members to do this*.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I'm still missing the point he apparently wants to make 
>> >> > > > (about the RSTA's
>> >> > > > Panel) because I don't know (John didn't provide?) what that 
>> >> > > > Panel actually wrote ("concluded"), nor what the RSTA wrote 
>> >> > > > (to
>> "endorse"
>> >> > > > the Panel's "conclusions").
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Peter R
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 3:06 PM John Grehan via Taxacom <  
>> >> > > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu > wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >> Some of you may recall that some years ago several 
>> >> > > >> researchers published a paper in Systematic Biology in 
>> >> > > >> which they called for
>> >> the
>> >> > > >> suppression and censorship of a research program they opposed.
>> That
>> >> > > >> they felt it was OK for scientists to openly admit to such
>> >> practices
>> >> > > >> is shocking enough, but now the Royal Society Te Apārangi 
>> >> > > >> (New
>> >> > > >> Zealand) has trashed its slogan "We support New Zealanders 
>> >> > > >> to explore, discover and share knowledge" by providing 
>> >> > > >> endorsement
>> of
>> >> > > >> suppression and censorship by their members through a Panel 
>> >> > > >> that concluded that there was nothing wrong for their 
>> >> > > >> members to do
>> >> this.
>> >> > > >> Perhaps others on Taxacome feel the same way, that it is OK 
>> >> > > >> for scientists to actively engage in suppression. To me it 
>> >> > > >> is
>> >> horrifying,
>> >> > > >> but perhaps I am in an ethical minority. Boggles the mind.
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> John Grehan
>> >> > > >> _______________________________________________
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