[Taxacom] Decency, humility and stability

Fri Nov 6 06:20:18 CST 2020

Well said Tony

Lets us not respond to this as an attack. We don’t need Ben Shapiro to tell us about how this is part of a culture war. This is a good opportunity to talk about different sorts of names and their values.

Best

Rob

Australian Indigenous names often reflect different life stages of the same species or group of species, other times even the same species in different seasons. I am very much in favour of representing Indigenous names where possible, but alongside the scientific names. Those names help maintain indigenous languages as well as provide access to indigenous ecological or other knowledge. My exhibition work is aligned along exactly that, and involves consultation with indigenous researchers and community groups.

Tony

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 8:20 AM Lynn Raw via Taxacom < taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:

> I agree with Thomas, in fact South African herpetologists have been doing

> this for years.   This is an example from a 1962 snake book by V.F.M.

> FitzSimons. Apologies to Taxacom readers, your list does not allow

> attachments. You will need to subscribe to the ICZN list to see the example.

>

> Lynn Raw

>

> > On 5 Nov 2020, at 15:29, Thomas Pape via Taxacom <

> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:

> >

> > Names are for communication between people, and we should certainly

> explore how to use the "incredible power of language" to engage

> humanity in safeguarding the planetary biodiversity. But we should do

> that without losing sight of the reasons we employ scientific naming

> and how this differs from the way we use common names. I like the common name "tuatara"

> very much, but I just do not see the gain in replacing the generic

> name Sphenodon, nor would I be in favour of using the proto-Algonquian

> word "caribou" or the Sámi word "boazu" as a substitute name for

> Rangifer tarandus. To me having both a scientific name and one or more

> common names will give us the best from both domains -- and that is

> what I see as the "incredible power of language".

> >

> > /Thomas

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> On Behalf Of KD

> Dijkstra via Taxacom

> > Sent: 5. november 2020 15:02

> > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Restoring indigenous names

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > As John and Mary allude, as does Sandra Knapp in her remarks to

> Scientific American, there is perhaps another way of looking at this

> and similar issues (e.g. with controversial bird names in North

> America): it demonstrates the incredible power of language. Isn't it

> great that our names matter this much? As scientists, we tend to focus on the more 'exact'

> > side of our work, but the rare beauty of taxonomy and natural

> > history is

> that they tie the process that has made every being (including

> ourselves) into what they are --life-- and the process by which humans

> give that diversity meaning --language-- together. Rather than purely

> as litigators of nomenclatoral rules, taxonomists can present

> themselves as mediators of that great source of understanding, meaning, and humility.

> >

> > Although I too feel some apprehension of this issue becoming yet

> > another

> stick to beat taxonomists with, I expect it to have local impact at most.

> > And indeed, if we can somehow use the power of language to engage

> > more

> people with species and their conservation, we'd be fools not to

> explore this. Over 150 million Americans have just voted, for all

> sorts of reasons, but foremost out of distrust of the other side. As

> the outcome lies in the balance, I take comfort from working on the

> perhaps most unifying issue of

> > all: reconciling the support and inspiration we get from the living

> world with the words and stories by which we share that support and

> inspiration.

> >

> > Call me dreamer, but I feel better having said that.

> >

> > Cheers, KD

> >

> > _________________________________________

> > *KD (Klaas-Douwe) B Dijkstra*

> > See my new website! kddijkstra.nl

> > key appearances and publications

> > <

> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsite

> s.google.com%2Fview%2Fkddijkstra%2Fhome&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm

> .ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1c

> effa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559177113%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC

> 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sd

> ata=CZsmPAn2DqIeWrTOBw3B0z%2B%2F%2BbydUjKlOaZiZFRldg0%3D&reserved=

> 0

> >

> > my work <

> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsite

> s.google.com%2Fview%2Fkddijkstra%2Fhome%2Fmy-work&data=04%7C01%7Ct

> pape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14696

> af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559177113%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8

> eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1

> 000&sdata=ShElvAykW2OtrmURnNleK7ofHwmgxP2fR6pqjC6BKZE%3D&reser

> ved=0>

> and my species <

> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsite

> s.google.com%2Fview%2Fkddijkstra%2Fhome%2Fmy-species&data=04%7C01%

> 7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14

> 696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559177113%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb

> 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%

> 7C1000&sdata=tPo5hM3wfBY18H2obquQtXMURGdhLv99A%2B0f3FNcBrY%3D&

> reserved=0

> >

> > African Dragonflies and Damselflies Online <

> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faddo.

> adu.org.za%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461

> b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817

> 559177113%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIi

> LCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=T4bZ4pxqFJMwHkjAfooxDL

> qgizSpkvx8GTcYmFMFNKs%3D&reserved=0

> >

> >

> >

> >> On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 11:27, John Grehan via Taxacom <

> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:

> >>

> >> I would agree that no group of people is inherently more deserving

> >> more than any other. Altogether we are all the same in messing up

> >> the planet - some having better opportunities than others. A

> >> comparable

> >> (perhaps) case of name changing has occurred with geographic names

> >> in NZ such as changing Mt Egmont to Mt Taranaki. Egmont was named

> >> by Captain Cook after the 2nd Earl of Egmont who had supported the

> >> search for southern lands. In this case, and when living there, I

> >> was fine with the change. Egmont just seemed irrelevant and

> >> Taranaki was widely used for the region. But there are many other

> >> geographic names where the Maori terms are also known (not to

> >> mention NZ as a whole), although my impression is that often both

> >> names are recognized at least as an alternative even if not as an

> >> official replacement - Aotearoa being a case in point. But like the

> >> names for biological entities, such subordination of geographic

> >> name changes seem to be a purely a cultural or ideological choice

> >> (although if it came down to a

> vote and I was eligible I would prefer Aotearoa).

> >>

> >> If local indigenous representation is seen to be of value then it

> >> is an opportunity for naming new species, and this is often the case.

> >> That seems to be where the emphasis can be placed when opportunity

> >> arises. The problem mentioned of multiple indigenous names is just

> >> like the multiple names used in all colloquial languages - which is

> >> why the use of novel Latin-Greek names was proposed in the first place.

> >>

> >> John Grehan

> >>

> >> On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 5:04 AM igor pavlinov via Taxacom <

> >> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> wrote:

> >>

> >>>

> >>> About NZ case. To oppose the suggestion to name native organisms

> >>> after native peaple, I’d remind that those native people

> >>> exterminated very inetresting endemic specis like moa. So, should

> >>> we name other species

> >> after

> >>> those eterminators? Why should we think they, with respect to the

> >>> native wildlife, were better that WASP colonisators?

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> - - -

> >>> Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS

> >>> Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University ul.

> >>> Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6

> >>> 125009 Moscow

> >>> Russia

> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fz

> >>> mm

> >>> u.msu.ru%2Fpersonal%2Fpavlinov%2Fpavlinov1.htm&data=04%7C01%7C

> >>> tp

> >>> ape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14

> >>> 69

> >>> 6af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559177113%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ

> >>> sb

> >>> 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0

> >>> %3

> >>> D%7C1000&sdata=xCPQNXG29H86ISYfhzOlThNnP02ZzIR1I7B7yVpNE%2FI%3

> >>> D&

> >>> amp;reserved=0

> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fz

> >>> mm

> >>> u.msu.ru%2Fpersonal%2Fpavlinov%2Fpavlinov_eng1.htm&data=04%7C0

> >>> 1%

> >>> 7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91c

> >>> da

> >>> 14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559177113%7CUnknown%7CTWF

> >>> pb

> >>> GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI

> >>> 6M

> >>> n0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nRd%2Bz8Oqk7WInaj7o9ZkaYX6UBZLsuuOC04haeBo9

> >>> IY

> >>> %3D&reserved=0

> >>>> Четверг, 5 ноября 2020, 12:47 +03:00 от Stephen Thorpe <

> >>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>:

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Igor,

> >>>> Yes, but so far there has never been large scale name changes for

> >>> political reasons. On the small scale, individual names often

> >>> change for spurious reasons. New Zealand has had two recent bad

> >>> ones: (1) the splitting of Nothofagus to satisfy the "mihi itch"

> >>> of the authors (the splitting now rejected by global botany

> >>> databases, but still followed within N.Z., thus creating

> >>> unfortunate dual nomenclature); and (2) the renaming of N.Z.'s

> >>> most infamous beetle,

> Costelytra zealandica to C.

> >> giveni

> >>> by interfering Spanish entomologists who failed to even consider

> >>> the

> >> option

> >>> of conserving the name! I suspect that (1) may have given Shane

> >>> Wright

> >> the

> >>> idea that names can be changed to suit one's agenda if one pushes

> >>> hard enough. I remember briefly discussing the Nothofagus case

> >>> with him

> >> several

> >>> years ago now, and it was clear then that he had no real grasp of

> >>> why the name changes were a bad thing.

> >>>> Cheers, Stephen

> >>>>

> >>>> On Thursday, 5 November 2020, 10:34:38 pm NZDT, igor pavlinov <

> >>> ipvl2008 at mail.ru<mailto:ipvl2008 at mail.ru> > wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Stephen, all this periodically occurred from the very beginning

> >>>> of the

> >>> history of the contemporary nomenclature since the early 19th

> >>> century,

> >> when

> >>> some nomenclaturists became suddenly confucianists in their

> >>> aspiration of “correction of names”. So, nothing is new in this

> >>> world,

> indeed.

> >>>>

> >>>> In a development of this theme, I would remind of a recent case

> >>>> of

> >>> correcting the Linnaean species names of domestic organisms in

> >>> favor of those given subsequently to their wild ancestors (Opinion 2027).

> >>> This proposal had been initiated by the professional taxonomists

> >>> and the final decision was made by the Commissioners in violation

> >>> of the priority principle and contrary to one of the basic

> >>> principles of the contemporary nominalist nomenclature (declared

> >>> by Adanson) asserting that “a name is just a name”. So why should

> >>> one anticipate anything different from the laymen?

> >>>>

> >>>> What I’m about? Probably, about that there are laws and there are

> >> people,

> >>> some of which are rigorists and others are “novelists”.

> >>>>

> >>>> Cheers, Igor

> >>>> - - -

> >>>> Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS

> >>>> Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University ul.

> >>>> Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6

> >>>> 125009 Moscow

> >>>> Russia

> >>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F

> >>>> zm

> >>>> mu.msu.ru%2Fpersonal%2Fpavlinov%2Fpavlinov1.htm&data=04%7C01%

> >>>> 7C

> >>>> tpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cd

> >>>> a1

> >>>> 4696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559177113%7CUnknown%7CTWF

> >>>> pb

> >>>> GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC

> >>>> I6

> >>>> Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=xCPQNXG29H86ISYfhzOlThNnP02ZzIR1I7B7yVpNE

> >>>> %2

> >>>> FI%3D&reserved=0

> >>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F

> >>>> zm

> >>>> mu.msu.ru%2Fpersonal%2Fpavlinov%2Fpavlinov_eng1.htm&data=04%7

> >>>> C0

> >>>> 1%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f

> >>>> 91

> >>>> cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559177113%7CUnknown%7

> >>>> CT

> >>>> WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC

> >>>> JX

> >>>> VCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nRd%2Bz8Oqk7WInaj7o9ZkaYX6UBZLsuuOC04

> >>>> ha

> >>>> eBo9IY%3D&reserved=0

> >>>>> Четверг, 5 ноября 2020, 12:09 +03:00 от Stephen Thorpe <

> >>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> >:

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Very interesting Igor. This may have set a worrying precedent

> >>>>> and a

> >>> slippery slope to more and more radical renaming proposals for

> >>> political reasons. As I commented off-list to someone, you cannot

> >>> cancel history

> >> and

> >>> famous people can fall in and out of favour, but we need taxonomic

> >>> names

> >> to

> >>> be stable. For example, the Americans might want to use taxonomic

> >>> names

> >> to

> >>> honour high achieving Afro-Americans. But then you get a case like

> >>> Bill Cosby! This would mean thant, effectively, the fate of

> >>> taxonomic names would be decided by juries in criminal trials! To

> >>> fight against anti-Semitism, we might  want to use taxonomic names

> >>> to honour high achieving Jews. Oh dear, those weinsteini and

> >>> epsteini patronyms now all need changing and writing out of history!

> >>> Also, of course, one person's hero is another person's villian!

> >>> What do we think about trumpi

> >> patronyms?

> >>> I really thought science was supposed to be above all this

> >>> nonsense, but apparently not!

> >>>>> Cheers, Stephen

> >>>>>

> >>>>> On Thursday, 5 November 2020, 08:22:24 pm NZDT, igor pavlinov <

> >>> ipvl2008 at mail.ru<mailto:ipvl2008 at mail.ru> > wrote:

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Not the same as NZ case, but also concerns changing scientific

> >>> taxonomic names for non-scientific reasons:

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Animal name changes in Turkey

> >>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%25>

> >>>>> 2F

> >>>>> en.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAnimal_name_changes_in_Turkey&data

> >>>>> =0

> >>>>> 4%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7C

> >>>>> a3

> >>>>> 927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559187104%7CUn

> >>>>> kn

> >>>>> own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik

> >>>>> 1h

> >>>>> aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=rY0Y5H3dMwWjR%2FscifIN91GHei

> >>>>> rV

> >>>>> nhMWQKb03EtljWc%3D&reserved=0

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Igor

> >>>>> - - -

> >>>>> Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS

> >>>>> Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University ul.

> >>>>> Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6

> >>>>> 125009 Moscow

> >>>>> Russia

> >>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%252>

> >>>>> Fz

> >>>>> mmu.msu.ru%2Fpersonal%2Fpavlinov%2Fpavlinov1.htm&data=04%7C0

> >>>>> 1%

> >>>>> 7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f9

> >>>>> 1c

> >>>>> da14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown%7

> >>>>> CT

> >>>>> WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL

> >>>>> CJ

> >>>>> XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=x%2FrEZYx6f0mORRuOXDGjlSINt22tUwnKs

> >>>>> aN

> >>>>> 0hh2qybU%3D&reserved=0

> >>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%252>

> >>>>> Fz

> >>>>> mmu.msu.ru%2Fpersonal%2Fpavlinov%2Fpavlinov_eng1.htm&data=04

> >>>>> %7

> >>>>> C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca39

> >>>>> 27

> >>>>> f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559187104%7CUnkno

> >>>>> wn

> >>>>> %7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha

> >>>>> Ww

> >>>>> iLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=KqS%2FITryk7B1cnyAkIo0wncRSIzee

> >>>>> Oy

> >>>>> iWtda4VCBiHk%3D&reserved=0

> >>>>>> Четверг, 5 ноября 2020, 8:40 +03:00 от Stephen Thorpe via

> >>>>>> Taxacom <

> >>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> >:

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> The extent to which this proposal is being pushed is somewhat

> >> alarming:

> >>>>>>

> >>>

> >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.

> >> scientificamerican.com%2Farticle%2Fchange-species-names-to-honor-in

> >> dig

> >> enous-peoples-not-colonizers-researchers-say%2F&data=04%7C01%7C

> >> tpa

> >> pe%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda1469

> >> 6af

> >> 898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d

> >> 8ey

> >> JWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C

> >> 100

> >> 0&sdata=GfdGSLMmUnPfPsXCovBVzPdSGbT93gqOEcVDVIV%2BnhA%3D&re

> >> ser

> >> ved=0

> >>>>>> We all know that the system is broken. Have we really now

> >>>>>> reached the

> >>> point where history (including scientific history) can be dragged

> >>> into cancel culture? Could a couple of average ecologists, working

> >>> for average (at best) tertiary institutions in New Zealand, really

> >>> throw global taxonomy into nomenclatural chaos, just because their

> >>> own personal

> >> cultural

> >>> axes to grind fit in  with a growing global wokist bandwagon? I

> >>> sincerely hope not! The reality is that institutions here in N.Z.

> >>> (and elsewhere)

> >> are

> >>> under political pressure to be seen to fighting racial inequality.

> >>> The problem cannot, of course, be solved, so they will grasp the

> >>> easiest

> >> option

> >>> to be seen to be doing something, and attacking biological

> >>> nomenclature might be one such easy option. Don't say I didn't

> >>> warn

> you!

> >>>>>> Stephen On Wednesday, 4 November 2020, 03:11:11 pm NZDT,

> >>>>>> Stephen

> >> Thorpe

> >>> < stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> > wrote:

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> PS: I don't know about the two authors of this particular

> >>>>>> proposal,

> >>> but, in general, I am staggered by the hypocrisy of academics in

> >>> general who push for these kinds of woke proposals, since, at the

> >>> same time, they are working within a system which routinely

> >>> acquires public funding for

> >> the

> >>> primary purpose of maximising institutional revenue, often

> >>> exaggerating and/or misrepresenting the merits of such projects.

> >>> Who do they think benefits the most from this? Answer: Rich

> >>> middle-aged white guys (and

> >> rich

> >>> middle-aged white women). Oh well, all will be forgiven if we use

> >>> indigenous names for taxa!! Yeah, right ...

> >>>>>>   On Wednesday, 4 November 2020, 02:42:16 pm NZDT, Stephen

> >>>>>> Thorpe <

> >>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> > wrote:

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> There are off-list emails already going out about this, and not

> >>> exactly in favour of the proposal! Hopefully, the proposal can

> >>> simply be ignored, as any changes to biological nomenclature would

> >>> have to be made

> >> at

> >>> an international level, and they have little reason to take much

> >>> notice

> >> of

> >>> little old N.Z. Shane Wright's opinion on this matter can hardly

> >>> be expected to be unbiased. The worry, though, is that this can be

> >>> seen as another step in a much bigger movement which is gaining

> >>> traction

> >> globally,

> >>> i.e. tearing down colonialist statues, taking episodes of the

> >>> 1970s

> >> comedy

> >>> Fawlty Towers off the air, etc. Ironically, I agree with our

> >>> former deputy-pm, Winston Peters, who is half Maori himself that

> >>> this "woke culture" is misguided and unhelpful and that every

> >>> nation makes mistakes

> >> in

> >>> their history, so we should learn from those mistakes but not try

> >>> to hide them.

> >>>>>> Stephen

> >>>>>>   On Wednesday, 4 November 2020, 02:20:11 pm NZDT, Geoff Read

> >>>>>> via

> >>> Taxacom < taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> > wrote:

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Hi all,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> My local newspaper pointed out this opinion piece this morning.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Gillman, Len Norman; Wright, Shane Donald. 2020. Restoring

> >>>>>> indigenous names in taxonomy. Communications Biology 3(1): 609

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Open access

> >>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F

> >>>>>> %2

> >>>>>> Fdoi.org%2F10.1038%2Fs42003-020-01344-y&data=04%7C01%7Ctpap

> >>>>>> e%

> >>>>>> 40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda146

> >>>>>> 96

> >>>>>> af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb

> >>>>>> GZ

> >>>>>> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC

> >>>>>> I6

> >>>>>> Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SDtWU5CcMiw4BeToJnjPtWWePHMiy0fxSoI0u0v

> >>>>>> JD

> >>>>>> Qc%3D&reserved=0

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Certainly there are unfortunate original  names out there.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> --

> >>>>>> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.

> >>>>>> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND

> >>>>>> gread at actrix.gen.nz<mailto:gread at actrix.gen.nz>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> _______________________________________________

> >>>>>> Taxacom Mailing List

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:

> >>>>>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> For list information; to subscribe

> >>>>>> or

> unsubscribe, visit:

> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fm

> >>> ai

> >>> lman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=

> >>> 04

> >>> %7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca39

> >>> 27

> >>> f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown

> >>> %7

> >>> CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL

> >>> CJ

> >>> XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=P50zIUdzLyTj87k30aaWVIm%2FCET%2BtvAnP

> >>> %2

> >>> BvGKLFx0Xw%3D&reserved=0

> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:

> >>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> >>>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:

> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft

> >>> ax

> >>> acom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623d

> >>> ca

> >>> 4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C

> >>> 0%

> >>> 7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL

> >>> CJ

> >>> QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OCMXz

> >>> bI

> >>> PqfcbUxP3V2D6eTJZC%2FVf7DyT32cVrRKBee0%3D&reserved=0

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,

> >>> 1987-2020.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> _______________________________________________

> >>>>>> Taxacom Mailing List

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:

> >>>>>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> For list information; to subscribe

> >>>>>> or

> unsubscribe, visit:

> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fm

> >>> ai

> >>> lman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=

> >>> 04

> >>> %7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca39

> >>> 27

> >>> f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown

> >>> %7

> >>> CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL

> >>> CJ

> >>> XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=P50zIUdzLyTj87k30aaWVIm%2FCET%2BtvAnP

> >>> %2

> >>> BvGKLFx0Xw%3D&reserved=0

> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at:

> >>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> >>>>>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:

> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft

> >>> ax

> >>> acom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623d

> >>> ca

> >>> 4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C

> >>> 0%

> >>> 7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL

> >>> CJ

> >>> QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OCMXz

> >>> bI

> >>> PqfcbUxP3V2D6eTJZC%2FVf7DyT32cVrRKBee0%3D&reserved=0

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,

> >>> 1987-2020.

> >>> _______________________________________________

> >>> Taxacom Mailing List

> >>>

> >>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:

> >>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:

> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fm

> >>> ai

> >>> lman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=

> >>> 04

> >>> %7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca39

> >>> 27

> >>> f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown

> >>> %7

> >>> CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL

> >>> CJ

> >>> XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=P50zIUdzLyTj87k30aaWVIm%2FCET%2BtvAnP

> >>> %2

> >>> BvGKLFx0Xw%3D&reserved=0 You can reach the person managing the

> >>> list at:

> >>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> >>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:

> >>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft

> >>> ax

> >>> acom.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623d

> >>> ca

> >>> 4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C

> >>> 0%

> >>> 7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL

> >>> CJ

> >>> QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OCMXz

> >>> bI

> >>> PqfcbUxP3V2D6eTJZC%2FVf7DyT32cVrRKBee0%3D&reserved=0

> >>>

> >>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,

> >> 1987-2020.

> >>>

> >> _______________________________________________

> >> Taxacom Mailing List

> >>

> >> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:

> >> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:

> >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fma

> >> ilm

> >> an.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%

> >> 7C0

> >> 1%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91

> >> cda

> >> 14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559187104%7CUnknown%7CTWFp

> >> bGZ

> >> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn

> >> 0%3

> >> D%7C1000&sdata=P50zIUdzLyTj87k30aaWVIm%2FCET%2BtvAnP%2BvGKLFx0X

> >> w%3

> >> D&reserved=0 You can reach the person managing the list at:

> >> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> >> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:

> >> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fta

> >> xac

> >> om.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4

> >> a3c

> >> 45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C6

> >> 374

> >> 01817559187104%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi

> >> V2l

> >> uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OCMXzbIPqfcbUx

> >> P3V

> >> 2D6eTJZC%2FVf7DyT32cVrRKBee0%3D&reserved=0

> >>

> >> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,

> 1987-2020.

> >>

> > _______________________________________________

> > Taxacom Mailing List

> >

> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:

> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailm

> an.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=04%7C0

> 1%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda

> 14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637401817559197096%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ

> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3

> D%7C1000&sdata=20npq%2BpndkvJkxWiD2vfqzyvAV3f%2BQ3Ib6GKra4zGuo%3D&

> amp;reserved=0

> > You can reach the person managing the list at:

> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> The Taxacom email archive back to

> 1992 can be searched at:

> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxac

> om.markmail.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C3d623dca4a3c

> 45461b6808d8819371ff%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C6374

> 01817559197096%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l

> uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TT2W3JFWiE1cl8cqk

> SZh3gljkYaFtp9sDq5hIJo7V7Q%3D&reserved=0

> >

> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,

> 1987-2020.

> > _______________________________________________

> > Taxacom Mailing List

> >

> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:

> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

> > You can reach the person managing the list at:

> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:

> http://taxacom.markmail.org

> >

> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,

> 1987-2020.

> _______________________________________________

> Taxacom Mailing List

>

> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:

> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

> You can reach the person managing the list at:

> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:

> http://taxacom.markmail.org

>

> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.

>

--

Dr Anthony C. Gill

Natural History Curator, Macleay Collections Chau Chak Wing Museum University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia.

Ph. +61 02 9036 6499

_______________________________________________

Taxacom Mailing List

Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org

Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.

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