[Taxacom] Restoring indigenous names

Thu Nov 5 08:02:10 CST 2020

Hi all,

As John and Mary allude, as does Sandra Knapp in her remarks to Scientific
American, there is perhaps another way of looking at this and similar
issues (e.g. with controversial bird names in North America): it
demonstrates the incredible power of language. Isn't it great that our
names matter this much? As scientists, we tend to focus on the more 'exact'
side of our work, but the rare beauty of taxonomy and natural history is
that they tie the process that has made every being (including ourselves)
into what they are --life-- and the process by which humans give that
diversity meaning --language-- together. Rather than purely as litigators
of nomenclatoral rules, taxonomists can present themselves as mediators of
that great source of understanding, meaning, and humility.

Although I too feel some apprehension of this issue becoming yet another
stick to beat taxonomists with, I expect it to have local impact at most.
And indeed, if we can somehow use the power of language to engage more
people with species and their conservation, we'd be fools not to explore
this. Over 150 million Americans have just voted, for all sorts of reasons,
but foremost out of distrust of the other side. As the outcome lies in the
balance, I take comfort from working on the perhaps most unifying issue of
all: reconciling the support and inspiration we get from the living world
with the words and stories by which we share that support and inspiration.

Call me dreamer, but I feel better having said that.

Cheers, KD

_________________________________________
*KD (Klaas-Douwe) B Dijkstra*
See my new website! kddijkstra.nl
key appearances and publications
<https://sites.google.com/view/kddijkstra/home>
my work <https://sites.google.com/view/kddijkstra/home/my-work> and my
species <https://sites.google.com/view/kddijkstra/home/my-species>
African Dragonflies and Damselflies Online <http://addo.adu.org.za/>

On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 at 11:27, John Grehan via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> I would agree that no group of people is inherently more deserving more
> than any other. Altogether we are all the same in messing up the planet -
> some having better opportunities than others. A comparable (perhaps) case
> of name changing has occurred with geographic names in NZ such as changing
> Mt Egmont to Mt Taranaki. Egmont was named by Captain Cook after the 2nd
> Earl of Egmont who had supported the search for southern lands. In this
> case, and when living there, I was fine with the change. Egmont just seemed
> irrelevant and Taranaki was widely used for the region. But there are many
> other geographic names where the Maori terms are also known (not to mention
> NZ as a whole), although my impression is that often both names are
> recognized at least as an alternative even if not as an official
> replacement - Aotearoa being a case in point. But like the names for
> biological entities, such subordination of geographic name changes seem to
> be a purely a cultural or ideological choice (although if it came down to a
> vote and I was eligible I would prefer Aotearoa).
>
> If local indigenous representation is seen to be of value then it is an
> opportunity for naming new species, and this is often the case. That seems
> to be where the emphasis can be placed when opportunity arises. The problem
> mentioned of multiple indigenous names is just like the multiple names used
> in all colloquial languages - which is why the use of novel Latin-Greek
> names was proposed in the first place.
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 5:04 AM igor pavlinov via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> > About NZ case. To oppose the suggestion to name native organisms after
> > native peaple, I’d remind that those native people exterminated very
> > inetresting endemic specis like moa. So, should we name other species
> after
> > those eterminators? Why should we think they, with respect to the native
> > wildlife, were better that WASP colonisators?
> >
> >
> > - - -
> > Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> > Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> > ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> > 125009 Moscow
> > Russia
> > http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
> > http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
> > >Четверг, 5 ноября 2020, 12:47 +03:00 от Stephen Thorpe <
> > stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>:
> > >
> > >
> > >Igor,
> > >Yes, but so far there has never been large scale name changes for
> > political reasons. On the small scale, individual names often change for
> > spurious reasons. New Zealand has had two recent bad ones: (1) the
> > splitting of Nothofagus to satisfy the "mihi itch" of the authors (the
> > splitting now rejected by global botany databases, but still followed
> > within N.Z., thus creating unfortunate dual nomenclature); and (2) the
> > renaming of N.Z.'s most infamous beetle, Costelytra zealandica to C.
> giveni
> > by interfering Spanish entomologists who failed to even consider the
> option
> > of conserving the name! I suspect that (1) may have given Shane Wright
> the
> > idea that names can be changed to suit one's agenda if one pushes hard
> > enough. I remember briefly discussing the Nothofagus case with him
> several
> > years ago now, and it was clear then that he had no real grasp of why the
> > name changes were a bad thing.
> > >Cheers, Stephen
> > >
> > >On Thursday, 5 November 2020, 10:34:38 pm NZDT, igor pavlinov <
> > ipvl2008 at mail.ru > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >Stephen, all this periodically occurred from the very beginning of the
> > history of the contemporary nomenclature since the early 19th century,
> when
> > some nomenclaturists became suddenly confucianists in their aspiration of
> > “correction of names”. So, nothing is new in this world, indeed.
> > >
> > >In a development of this theme, I would remind of a recent case of
> > correcting the Linnaean species names of domestic organisms in favor of
> > those given subsequently to their wild ancestors (Opinion 2027). This
> > proposal had been initiated by the professional taxonomists and the final
> > decision was made by the Commissioners in violation of the priority
> > principle and contrary to one of the basic principles of the contemporary
> > nominalist nomenclature (declared by Adanson) asserting that “a name is
> > just a name”. So why should one anticipate anything different from the
> > laymen?
> > >
> > >What I’m about? Probably, about that there are laws and there are
> people,
> > some of which are rigorists and others are “novelists”.
> > >
> > >Cheers, Igor
> > >- - -
> > >Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> > >Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> > >ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> > >125009 Moscow
> > >Russia
> > >http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
> > >http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
> > >>Четверг, 5 ноября 2020, 12:09 +03:00 от Stephen Thorpe <
> > stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz >:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Very interesting Igor. This may have set a worrying precedent and a
> > slippery slope to more and more radical renaming proposals for political
> > reasons. As I commented off-list to someone, you cannot cancel history
> and
> > famous people can fall in and out of favour, but we need taxonomic names
> to
> > be stable. For example, the Americans might want to use taxonomic names
> to
> > honour high achieving Afro-Americans. But then you get a case like Bill
> > Cosby! This would mean thant, effectively, the fate of taxonomic names
> > would be decided by juries in criminal trials! To fight against
> > anti-Semitism, we might  want to use taxonomic names to honour high
> > achieving Jews. Oh dear, those weinsteini and epsteini patronyms now all
> > need changing and writing out of history! Also, of course, one person's
> > hero is another person's villian! What do we think about trumpi
> patronyms?
> > I really thought science was supposed to be above all this nonsense, but
> > apparently not!
> > >>Cheers, Stephen
> > >>
> > >>On Thursday, 5 November 2020, 08:22:24 pm NZDT, igor pavlinov <
> > ipvl2008 at mail.ru > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Not the same as NZ case, but also concerns changing scientific
> > taxonomic names for non-scientific reasons:
> > >>
> > >>Animal name changes in Turkey
> > >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_name_changes_in_Turkey
> > >>
> > >>Igor
> > >>- - -
> > >>Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> > >>Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> > >>ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> > >>125009 Moscow
> > >>Russia
> > >>http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
> > >>http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
> > >>>Четверг, 5 ноября 2020, 8:40 +03:00 от Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu >:
> > >>>
> > >>>The extent to which this proposal is being pushed is somewhat
> alarming:
> > >>>
> >
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/change-species-names-to-honor-indigenous-peoples-not-colonizers-researchers-say/
> > >>>We all know that the system is broken. Have we really now reached the
> > point where history (including scientific history) can be dragged into
> > cancel culture? Could a couple of average ecologists, working for average
> > (at best) tertiary institutions in New Zealand, really throw global
> > taxonomy into nomenclatural chaos, just because their own personal
> cultural
> > axes to grind fit in  with a growing global wokist bandwagon? I sincerely
> > hope not! The reality is that institutions here in N.Z. (and elsewhere)
> are
> > under political pressure to be seen to fighting racial inequality. The
> > problem cannot, of course, be solved, so they will grasp the easiest
> option
> > to be seen to be doing something, and attacking biological nomenclature
> > might be one such easy option. Don't say I didn't warn you!
> > >>>Stephen On Wednesday, 4 November 2020, 03:11:11 pm NZDT, Stephen
> Thorpe
> > < stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>  PS: I don't know about the two authors of this particular proposal,
> > but, in general, I am staggered by the hypocrisy of academics in general
> > who push for these kinds of woke proposals, since, at the same time, they
> > are working within a system which routinely acquires public funding for
> the
> > primary purpose of maximising institutional revenue, often exaggerating
> > and/or misrepresenting the merits of such projects. Who do they think
> > benefits the most from this? Answer: Rich middle-aged white guys (and
> rich
> > middle-aged white women). Oh well, all will be forgiven if we use
> > indigenous names for taxa!! Yeah, right ...
> > >>>    On Wednesday, 4 November 2020, 02:42:16 pm NZDT, Stephen Thorpe <
> > stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>  There are off-list emails already going out about this, and not
> > exactly in favour of the proposal! Hopefully, the proposal can simply be
> > ignored, as any changes to biological nomenclature would have to be made
> at
> > an international level, and they have little reason to take much notice
> of
> > little old N.Z. Shane Wright's opinion on this matter can hardly be
> > expected to be unbiased. The worry, though, is that this can be seen as
> > another step in a much bigger movement which is gaining traction
> globally,
> > i.e. tearing down colonialist statues, taking episodes of the 1970s
> comedy
> > Fawlty Towers off the air, etc. Ironically, I agree with our former
> > deputy-pm, Winston Peters, who is half Maori himself that this "woke
> > culture" is misguided and unhelpful and that every nation makes mistakes
> in
> > their history, so we should learn from those mistakes but not try to hide
> > them.
> > >>>Stephen
> > >>>    On Wednesday, 4 November 2020, 02:20:11 pm NZDT, Geoff Read via
> > Taxacom < taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>>My local newspaper pointed out this opinion piece this morning.
> > >>>
> > >>>Gillman, Len Norman; Wright, Shane Donald. 2020. Restoring indigenous
> > >>>names in taxonomy. Communications Biology 3(1): 609
> > >>>
> > >>>Open access  https://doi.org/10.1038/s42003-020-01344-y
> > >>>
> > >>>Certainly there are unfortunate original  names out there.
> > >>>
> > >>>--
> > >>>Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> > >>>Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> > >>>gread at actrix.gen.nz
> > >>>
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