[Taxacom] Restoring indigenous names

Thu Nov 5 04:26:52 CST 2020

I would agree that no group of people is inherently more deserving more
than any other. Altogether we are all the same in messing up the planet -
some having better opportunities than others. A comparable (perhaps) case
of name changing has occurred with geographic names in NZ such as changing
Mt Egmont to Mt Taranaki. Egmont was named by Captain Cook after the 2nd
Earl of Egmont who had supported the search for southern lands. In this
case, and when living there, I was fine with the change. Egmont just seemed
irrelevant and Taranaki was widely used for the region. But there are many
other geographic names where the Maori terms are also known (not to mention
NZ as a whole), although my impression is that often both names are
recognized at least as an alternative even if not as an official
replacement - Aotearoa being a case in point. But like the names for
biological entities, such subordination of geographic name changes seem to
be a purely a cultural or ideological choice (although if it came down to a
vote and I was eligible I would prefer Aotearoa).

If local indigenous representation is seen to be of value then it is an
opportunity for naming new species, and this is often the case. That seems
to be where the emphasis can be placed when opportunity arises. The problem
mentioned of multiple indigenous names is just like the multiple names used
in all colloquial languages - which is why the use of novel Latin-Greek
names was proposed in the first place.

John Grehan

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 5:04 AM igor pavlinov via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

>
> About NZ case. To oppose the suggestion to name native organisms after
> native peaple, I’d remind that those native people exterminated very
> inetresting endemic specis like moa. So, should we name other species after
> those eterminators? Why should we think they, with respect to the native
> wildlife, were better that WASP colonisators?
>
>
> - - -
> Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> 125009 Moscow
> Russia
> http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
> http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
> >Четверг, 5 ноября 2020, 12:47 +03:00 от Stephen Thorpe <
> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>:
> >
> >
> >Igor,
> >Yes, but so far there has never been large scale name changes for
> political reasons. On the small scale, individual names often change for
> spurious reasons. New Zealand has had two recent bad ones: (1) the
> splitting of Nothofagus to satisfy the "mihi itch" of the authors (the
> splitting now rejected by global botany databases, but still followed
> within N.Z., thus creating unfortunate dual nomenclature); and (2) the
> renaming of N.Z.'s most infamous beetle, Costelytra zealandica to C. giveni
> by interfering Spanish entomologists who failed to even consider the option
> of conserving the name! I suspect that (1) may have given Shane Wright the
> idea that names can be changed to suit one's agenda if one pushes hard
> enough. I remember briefly discussing the Nothofagus case with him several
> years ago now, and it was clear then that he had no real grasp of why the
> name changes were a bad thing.
> >Cheers, Stephen
> >
> >On Thursday, 5 November 2020, 10:34:38 pm NZDT, igor pavlinov <
> ipvl2008 at mail.ru > wrote:
> >
> >
> >Stephen, all this periodically occurred from the very beginning of the
> history of the contemporary nomenclature since the early 19th century, when
> some nomenclaturists became suddenly confucianists in their aspiration of
> “correction of names”. So, nothing is new in this world, indeed.
> >
> >In a development of this theme, I would remind of a recent case of
> correcting the Linnaean species names of domestic organisms in favor of
> those given subsequently to their wild ancestors (Opinion 2027). This
> proposal had been initiated by the professional taxonomists and the final
> decision was made by the Commissioners in violation of the priority
> principle and contrary to one of the basic principles of the contemporary
> nominalist nomenclature (declared by Adanson) asserting that “a name is
> just a name”. So why should one anticipate anything different from the
> laymen?
> >
> >What I’m about? Probably, about that there are laws and there are people,
> some of which are rigorists and others are “novelists”.
> >
> >Cheers, Igor
> >- - -
> >Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> >Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> >ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> >125009 Moscow
> >Russia
> >http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
> >http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
> >>Четверг, 5 ноября 2020, 12:09 +03:00 от Stephen Thorpe <
> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz >:
> >>
> >>
> >>Very interesting Igor. This may have set a worrying precedent and a
> slippery slope to more and more radical renaming proposals for political
> reasons. As I commented off-list to someone, you cannot cancel history and
> famous people can fall in and out of favour, but we need taxonomic names to
> be stable. For example, the Americans might want to use taxonomic names to
> honour high achieving Afro-Americans. But then you get a case like Bill
> Cosby! This would mean thant, effectively, the fate of taxonomic names
> would be decided by juries in criminal trials! To fight against
> anti-Semitism, we might  want to use taxonomic names to honour high
> achieving Jews. Oh dear, those weinsteini and epsteini patronyms now all
> need changing and writing out of history! Also, of course, one person's
> hero is another person's villian! What do we think about trumpi patronyms?
> I really thought science was supposed to be above all this nonsense, but
> apparently not!
> >>Cheers, Stephen
> >>
> >>On Thursday, 5 November 2020, 08:22:24 pm NZDT, igor pavlinov <
> ipvl2008 at mail.ru > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>Not the same as NZ case, but also concerns changing scientific
> taxonomic names for non-scientific reasons:
> >>
> >>Animal name changes in Turkey
> >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_name_changes_in_Turkey
> >>
> >>Igor
> >>- - -
> >>Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> >>Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> >>ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> >>125009 Moscow
> >>Russia
> >>http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
> >>http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
> >>>Четверг, 5 ноября 2020, 8:40 +03:00 от Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu >:
> >>>
> >>>The extent to which this proposal is being pushed is somewhat alarming:
> >>>
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/change-species-names-to-honor-indigenous-peoples-not-colonizers-researchers-say/
> >>>We all know that the system is broken. Have we really now reached the
> point where history (including scientific history) can be dragged into
> cancel culture? Could a couple of average ecologists, working for average
> (at best) tertiary institutions in New Zealand, really throw global
> taxonomy into nomenclatural chaos, just because their own personal cultural
> axes to grind fit in  with a growing global wokist bandwagon? I sincerely
> hope not! The reality is that institutions here in N.Z. (and elsewhere) are
> under political pressure to be seen to fighting racial inequality. The
> problem cannot, of course, be solved, so they will grasp the easiest option
> to be seen to be doing something, and attacking biological nomenclature
> might be one such easy option. Don't say I didn't warn you!
> >>>Stephen On Wednesday, 4 November 2020, 03:11:11 pm NZDT, Stephen Thorpe
> < stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  PS: I don't know about the two authors of this particular proposal,
> but, in general, I am staggered by the hypocrisy of academics in general
> who push for these kinds of woke proposals, since, at the same time, they
> are working within a system which routinely acquires public funding for the
> primary purpose of maximising institutional revenue, often exaggerating
> and/or misrepresenting the merits of such projects. Who do they think
> benefits the most from this? Answer: Rich middle-aged white guys (and rich
> middle-aged white women). Oh well, all will be forgiven if we use
> indigenous names for taxa!! Yeah, right ...
> >>>    On Wednesday, 4 November 2020, 02:42:16 pm NZDT, Stephen Thorpe <
> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  There are off-list emails already going out about this, and not
> exactly in favour of the proposal! Hopefully, the proposal can simply be
> ignored, as any changes to biological nomenclature would have to be made at
> an international level, and they have little reason to take much notice of
> little old N.Z. Shane Wright's opinion on this matter can hardly be
> expected to be unbiased. The worry, though, is that this can be seen as
> another step in a much bigger movement which is gaining traction globally,
> i.e. tearing down colonialist statues, taking episodes of the 1970s comedy
> Fawlty Towers off the air, etc. Ironically, I agree with our former
> deputy-pm, Winston Peters, who is half Maori himself that this "woke
> culture" is misguided and unhelpful and that every nation makes mistakes in
> their history, so we should learn from those mistakes but not try to hide
> them.
> >>>Stephen
> >>>    On Wednesday, 4 November 2020, 02:20:11 pm NZDT, Geoff Read via
> Taxacom < taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Hi all,
> >>>
> >>>My local newspaper pointed out this opinion piece this morning.
> >>>
> >>>Gillman, Len Norman; Wright, Shane Donald. 2020. Restoring indigenous
> >>>names in taxonomy. Communications Biology 3(1): 609
> >>>
> >>>Open access  https://doi.org/10.1038/s42003-020-01344-y
> >>>
> >>>Certainly there are unfortunate original  names out there.
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> >>>Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> >>>gread at actrix.gen.nz
> >>>
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