[Taxacom] Gender equality in science

Tue Jun 5 18:54:13 CDT 2018

Evangelos said: "Sounds nice, but one might ask: in given society are men more able to achieve professional qualifications than women, at the same time and
applying for the same position? If there is a kind of advantage that tip the scale, all other things equal, then merely looking at the qualifications might not be enough."

My opinion: IF men more able to achieve professional qualifications than women, then that gender inequality needs to be removed BEFORE trying to tackle gender inequality in employment. At the end of the day, we want the best candidate to get the job. Currently, that might necessitate more men than women in certain jobs. By tackling any gender inequality in the ability to "achieve professional qualifications", we can hope to eventually arrive at a situation in which the best candidate is a women in approximately 50% of cases. The key is to remove discrimination without adding to discrimination (by way of +ve discrimination, e.g. quotas, etc.)

Stephen

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 6/6/18, Evangelos Vlachos <evlacho at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Gender equality in science
 To: rjensen at saintmarys.edu
 Cc: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Received: Wednesday, 6 June, 2018, 3:34 AM

 While I agree with all that has
 been said on the matter, I would like also
 to point out the following:

 Most of this kind of discussion is focused on
 the negative examples. Of
 course this is
 important to do. It is paramount to identify all
 discrimination in the work environment and try
 to fix it, and all these
 examples help to do
 so. However, they often cause conflicts.

 I feel that everyone would benefit if these
 negative examples are
 accompanied by
 positive ones as well.

 For
 example, in my home institutional organization, CONICET in
 Argentina,
 over the last decades we have
 experienced an enormous growth of the number
 of researchers and we reached a 52% women and
 48% men (or so, I do not
 remember the
 numbers exactly) composition. All committees are composed
 of
 both men and women, but not with this
 strict 50-50 distinction. There are
 cases
 that women represent the majority in decision-making
 committees.
 Still, there is more to be done
 for more equity in the top level
 researchers, heads of institutions etc, but
 this also has to do with time.
 To reach
 these top positions you need to have a long career through
 the
 system, but I have no doubt that in the
 next decade women that reach the
 top level
 research positions will also, naturally, occupy more
 leading
 positions in science
 institutions.

 Of course, as
 in any work environment, both women and men continue to
 be
 harassed (a bit or a lot doesn't
 matter) in one way or the other, but this
 mainly comes as the result of the personal
 behaviors of people that cannot
 express
 themselves without using any discriminating factor, may that
 be
 color, gender, appearance, you name
 it.

 In my opinion, these
 despicable individual actions of discrimination from a
 specific target to a specific receiver, should
 not be confused with cases
 where there is a
 broader, systemic, gender discrimination. Identifying
 that
 could help towards its solution.

 Pay attention to an
 individual's professional qualifications
 > and ignore gender difference.

 Sounds nice,
 but one might ask: in given society are men more able to
 achieve professional qualifications than women,
 at the same time and
 applying for the same
 position? If there is a kind of advantage that tip
 the scale, all other things equal, then merely
 looking at the
 qualifications might not be
 enough. For example, in Argentina (and I am
 sure in other countries as well) there are age
 limits to apply for a given
 position; women
 are allowed 2-3 years more than men, to compensate for
 the
 time of pregnancy, birth and of course
 for the first years of the life of
 the baby
 that requires more attention.

 If you do not have any of these mechanisms you
 might end up with cases
 where everything
 appears, on paper, equal but in reality is not.

 All the best,

 Evan

 On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 at 11:52, Richard Jensen
 <rjensen at saintmarys.edu>
 wrote:

 > I applaud these
 efforts to create a more gender-equitable world.
 >
 > Gender discrimination
 has a long and shameful history.  I have experienced
 > it at two different institutions.  In one
 case, the committee screening
 >
 candidates was all set to exclude a young women who,
 according to them, had
 > pumped up her
 c.v. by including several publications that were not her
 > own.  Seems she had used her maiden name
 early on, then switched to her
 > married
 name later.
 >
 > In a
 second example (and this occurred at a women's college),
 a top
 > candidate (female) was excluded
 because several males were convinced that
 > her husband would not consider a move that
 would change his employment
 > options. 
 This excuse was brought up in several searches and it was
 > difficult for to convince them that this
 was not an appropriate search
 >
 criterion.
 >
 > Gender
 discrimination remains a significant problem in academe as
 well as
 > other human endeavors (see
 today's news reports about the CEO of Qatar
 > Airlines arguing that a woman could not
 deal with the challenges of such a
 >
 position).  Pay attention to an individual's
 professional qualifications
 > and ignore
 gender difference.  In the US, this is required under
 Equal
 > Opportunity Employment
 guidelines.
 >
 >
 Cheers,
 >
 > Dick J
 >
 > On Mon, Jun 4, 2018
 at 10:02 PM, Kristina LEMSON <k.lemson at ecu.edu.au>
 > wrote:
 >
 > > Thankyou for your contribution
 Rob.
 > >
 > > I
 think Stephen has missed the point. If a selection panel is
 faced with
 > > two people equally
 qualified and ranked equally according to the
 > selection
 > >
 criteria, there is a decision to be made. Historically and 
 to this day
 > > (yes, I have seen it
 in action myself) the research shows that if it is
 > > between a man and a woman at this
 point, the guy will get the job. Gender
 >
 > equity is about excavating the underlying reasons why
 (and they have been
 > > well
 documented many many times) and making sure that sexism is
 not the
 > > deciding factor at this
 point. Sexism also shows up as e.g. canny ways of
 > > defining ‘competence’,
 ‘performance’ and ‘ability’.
 >
 >
 > >  The devil of discrimination
 of any kind lies in the small decisions that
 > > happen every day in the lived
 experience of people. And yes, women in
 >
 > taxonomy do have those lived experiences, regardless of
 whether others
 > wish
 > > to validate them or not.
 > >
 > > To tweak
 one of my favourite quotes
 > > “
 privilege doesn’t mean your life hasn’t been hard...it
 does mean that
 > > (gender) is not one
 of the things making it harder”.
 >
 >
 > > Kristina
 >
 >
 > > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
 > > ________________________________
 > > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 on behalf of Rob
 > > Smissen <SmissenR at landcareresearch.co.nz>
 > > Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 6:13:47
 PM
 > > To: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 > > Subject: [Taxacom] Gender equality in
 science
 > >
 > >
 Esteemed colleagues
 > >
 > > It seems timely to raise again the
 words Doug Soltis spoke at the last
 >
 IBC
 > > to which all present affirmed
 or were silent. I draw attention to two
 >
 > phrases, "actively work for gender equality",
 and "unconscious bias".
 >
 >
 > > best wishes
 > >
 > > Rob
 > >
 > >
 > > Resolution 2 (Gender equity): The XIX
 International Botanical Congress in
 >
 > Shenzhen, China resolves to work actively for gender
 equity in the plant
 > > sciences: to
 facilitate equal opportunities for entry, participation
 and
 > > advancement in the field; to
 create environments where men and women work
 > > together with equal recognition; and
 where each person, regardless of
 > >
 gender, strives to create opportunities in an equitable way,
 avoiding
 > both
 > >
 conscious and unconscious bias in decision-making processes.
 Resolution 3
 > > (IAPT-China Office):
 The XIX International
 > >
 > > ________________________________
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