[Taxacom] Gender equality in science

Tue Jun 5 16:34:59 CDT 2018

There are two very different issues being conflated in this thread! First and foremost to me is the use of bad "research" to try to argue for a political agenda (in this case, gender equality in employment). Surely we all value science and research in general, and hate to see it misrepresented and/or misused for political ends? The "research" that I started this thread by highlighting was a good example of bad research! To measure "competence"/"merit" by income was a very dirty trick, which allowed the authors to show that gender quotas eliminate "mediocre" men (=men of lower merit), thereby appearing to counter the objection to quotas that they are unmeritocratic!

The second issue is gender inequality in science as a general problem. I am not so interested in this, though I still do recognise it as a serious scourge best eliminated. However, I do not see approaches involving +ve discrimination to help! Such approaches only shift the discrimination against men, and discrimination against men is no better (or worse) than discrimination against women (or indeed against anyone).

Dick said: "Pay attention to an individual's professional qualifications and ignore gender difference"

Absolutely, that is also my view (as I have already indicated). However, that is not what is happening! Instead we are seeing +ve discrimination in favour of women (including quotas, etc.)

Stephen

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 6/6/18, Richard Jensen <rjensen at saintmarys.edu> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Gender equality in science
 To: "Kristina LEMSON" <k.lemson at ecu.edu.au>
 Cc: "Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Received: Wednesday, 6 June, 2018, 2:52 AM

 I applaud these efforts to create a more
 gender-equitable world.

 Gender discrimination has a long and
 shameful history.  I have experienced
 it at two different institutions. 
 In one case, the committee screening
 candidates was all set to exclude a
 young women who, according to them, had
 pumped up her c.v. by including several
 publications that were not her
 own.  Seems she had used her
 maiden name early on, then switched to her
 married name later.

 In a second example (and this occurred
 at a women's college), a top
 candidate (female) was excluded because
 several males were convinced that
 her husband would not consider a move
 that would change his employment
 options.  This excuse was brought
 up in several searches and it was
 difficult for to convince them that
 this was not an appropriate search
 criterion.

 Gender discrimination remains a
 significant problem in academe as well as
 other human endeavors (see today's news
 reports about the CEO of Qatar
 Airlines arguing that a woman could not
 deal with the challenges of such a
 position).  Pay attention to an
 individual's professional qualifications
 and ignore gender difference.  In
 the US, this is required under Equal
 Opportunity Employment guidelines.

 Cheers,

 Dick J

 On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:02 PM,
 Kristina LEMSON <k.lemson at ecu.edu.au>
 wrote:

 > Thankyou for your contribution
 Rob.
 >
 > I think Stephen has missed the
 point. If a selection panel is faced with
 > two people equally qualified and
 ranked equally according to the selection
 > criteria, there is a decision to
 be made. Historically and  to this day
 > (yes, I have seen it in action
 myself) the research shows that if it is
 > between a man and a woman at this
 point, the guy will get the job. Gender
 > equity is about excavating the
 underlying reasons why (and they have been
 > well documented many many times)
 and making sure that sexism is not the
 > deciding factor at this point.
 Sexism also shows up as e.g. canny ways of
 > defining ‘competence’,
 ‘performance’ and ‘ability’.
 >
 >  The devil of discrimination
 of any kind lies in the small decisions that
 > happen every day in the lived
 experience of people. And yes, women in
 > taxonomy do have those lived
 experiences, regardless of whether others wish
 > to validate them or not.
 >
 > To tweak one of my favourite
 quotes
 > “ privilege doesn’t mean your
 life hasn’t been hard...it does mean that
 > (gender) is not one of the things
 making it harder”.
 >
 > Kristina
 >
 > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
 > ________________________________
 > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 on behalf of Rob
 > Smissen <SmissenR at landcareresearch.co.nz>
 > Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 6:13:47
 PM
 > To: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 > Subject: [Taxacom] Gender equality
 in science
 >
 > Esteemed colleagues
 >
 > It seems timely to raise again the
 words Doug Soltis spoke at the last IBC
 > to which all present affirmed or
 were silent. I draw attention to two
 > phrases, "actively work for gender
 equality", and "unconscious bias".
 >
 > best wishes
 >
 > Rob
 >
 >
 > Resolution 2 (Gender equity): The
 XIX International Botanical Congress in
 > Shenzhen, China resolves to work
 actively for gender equity in the plant
 > sciences: to facilitate equal
 opportunities for entry, participation and
 > advancement in the field; to
 create environments where men and women work
 > together with equal recognition;
 and where each person, regardless of
 > gender, strives to create
 opportunities in an equitable way, avoiding both
 > conscious and unconscious bias in
 decision-making processes. Resolution 3
 > (IAPT-China Office): The XIX
 International
 >
 > ________________________________
 >
 > Please consider the environment
 before printing this email
 > Warning: This electronic message
 together with any attachments is
 > confidential. If you receive it in
 error: (i) you must not read, use,
 > disclose, copy or retain it; (ii)
 please contact the sender immediately by
 > reply email and then delete the
 emails.
 > The views expressed in this email
 may not be those of Landcare Research
 > New Zealand Limited. https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
 >
 http%3A%2F%2Fwww.landcareresearch.co.nz&data=02%7C01%7Ck.lemson%40ecu.edu.
 >
 au%7C808d8124c5bf4347ed8308d5ca03e44b%7C9bcb323d7fa345e7a36f6d9cfdbc
 >
 c272%7C1%7C0%7C636637040429570064&sdata=Vcqw8d60nD1I0ugRpiSn84e3eYQbVj
 > HmQZh5BrfwMh4%3D&reserved=0
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > Taxacom Mailing List
 > Send Taxacom mailing list
 submissions to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >
 > https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
 >
 http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%
 >
 2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%7C01%7Ck.lemson%40ecu.edu.au%
 >
 7C808d8124c5bf4347ed8308d5ca03e44b%7C9bcb323d7fa345e7a36f6d9cfdbc
 >
 c272%7C1%7C0%7C636637040429570064&sdata=VZYvih7gUlYKIGYz32Nz30M6umT7gS
 > MmvyK0ml88q8o%3D&reserved=0
 > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
 may be searched at:
 > https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
 >
 http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org&data=02%7C01%7Ck.lemson%40ecu.edu.au%
 >
 7C808d8124c5bf4347ed8308d5ca03e44b%7C9bcb323d7fa345e7a36f6d9cfdbc
 >
 c272%7C1%7C0%7C636637040429570064&sdata=VCbjEoqSNL1lwtziCT%
 >
 2BCGzGJDaRrIbMhN%2BDvEpvB488%3D&reserved=0
 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via
 the Web, visit: https://apac01.safelinks.
 >
 protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.
 >
 edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data=02%
 >
 7C01%7Ck.lemson%40ecu.edu.au%7C808d8124c5bf4347ed8308d5ca03e44b%
 >
 7C9bcb323d7fa345e7a36f6d9cfdbcc272%7C1%7C0%7C636637040429570064&sdata=
 >
 VZYvih7gUlYKIGYz32Nz30M6umT7gSMmvyK0ml88q8o%3D&reserved=0
 > You can reach the person managing
 the list at:
 > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >
 > Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting
 Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
 >
 > ________________________________
 >
 > This e-mail is confidential. If
 you are not the intended recipient you
 > must not disclose or use the
 information contained within. If you have
 > received it in error please return
 it to the sender via reply e-mail and
 > delete any record of it from your
 system. The information contained within
 > is not the opinion of Edith Cowan
 University in general and the University
 > accepts no liability for the
 accuracy of the information provided.
 >
 > CRICOS IPC 00279B
 > RTO PROVIDER 4756
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > Taxacom Mailing List
 > Send Taxacom mailing list
 submissions to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >
 > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
 may be searched at:
 > http://taxacom.markmail.org
 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via
 the Web, visit:
 > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 > You can reach the person managing
 the list at:
 > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >
 > Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting
 Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
 >

 -- 
 Richard Jensen, Professor Emeritus
 Department of Biology
 Saint Mary's College
 Notre Dame, IN 46556
 _______________________________________________
 Taxacom Mailing List
 Send Taxacom mailing list submissions
 to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu

 http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
 searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the
 Web, visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 You can reach the person managing the
 list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu

 Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting
 Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.