[Taxacom] Long-distance oceanic dispersal (rafting) of Nothofagus species
Barry OConnor
bmoc at umich.edu
Sun Jun 3 10:02:15 CDT 2018
A mite originally described from beach wrack in the Russian far east turned
up in beach wrack on the Oregon coast after the big Japanese
earthquake/tsunami. Could have always been there, just never discovered
until later. Given all the Asian stuff found on beaches in the Pacific
northwest after the tsunami, either way it's a possibility that its
distribution was affected by tsunamis at some point. As John points out,
however, neither scenario is testable without historical data, which is
absent.
All the best! - Barry
On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 10:46 AM, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Its not a testable notion in any real sense any more than attributing the
> connection to UFO's. Further, it is not an 'odd' distribution, but one that
> is very even (meaning standard). One can invoke any number of imaginary
> events to toss plants and animals from one side of the Tasman to the other,
> or even just place them there by an Act of God, but there is no empirical
> imperative to do so for this any more than imagining a tsunami to toss
> frogs from Vancouver to New Zealand.
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 8:38 AM, Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Stephen,
> >
> > But it could be somewhat scientifically testable if some organisms
> > (mostly likely insects) have the same odd distribution in New Zealand and
> > Tasmania (or adjacent Australia). So I am hoping that some entomologist
> > might know of insects that fit the bill. And if there were more than one
> > such organism, the more likely this dispersal scenario would become.
> >
> > And note that I cited two different Nothofagus species groups with
> > the same odd distribution (one in subgenus Lophozonia and the other in
> > subgenus Fuscospora). And those two dispersals could have happened at
> > different times. So that already increases the probability of dispersal.
> > Anyway, at least Fred understood what I was suggesting:
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom/2006-December/108388.html
> >
> >
> > -----------------Ken
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:59 PM
> > To: Kenneth Kinman
> > Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Long-distance oceanic dispersal (rafting) of
> > Nothofagus species
> >
> > "Could certain insects, mosses, or other organisms have hitched a ride on
> > such a Nothofagus raft?"
> >
> > Impossible to rule out just about anything that doesn't constantly
> require
> > running freshwater. If it happened during summer, there could be a
> > desiccating effect, but at other times the amount of freshwater dampness
> > could remain at acceptable levels.
> >
> > The problem though, as I see it, is that these dispersion events are
> > entirely random and unpredictable, so it is hard to base much in the way
> of
> > science on it.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Sun, 3/6/18, Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: [Taxacom] Long-distance oceanic dispersal (rafting) of
> > Nothofagus species
> > To: "Kenneth Kinman" <kinman at hotmail.com>
> > Cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > Received: Sunday, 3 June, 2018, 1:51 PM
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The recent thread got me thinking about a debate that some
> > of us were having on taxacom almost 12 years ago. Namely
> > whether long-distance oceanic dispersal (by rafting) was a
> > significant factor in the geographic distribution of some
> > species of Nothofagus (sensu lato).
> >
> > My hypothesis was that large rafts of dislodged Nothofagus
> > trees (due to tsunami or other massive flooding event) could
> > have held some of their fruit above the ocean surface and
> > rafted from Tasmania to New Zealand, where one or more new
> > species could evolve (due to founder effect). This would
> > be a relatively short rafting event compared to the much
> > longer driftwood oceanic rafting that happened from South
> > America to Tasmania: Barber, 1959, in the journal Nature;
> > "Transport of Driftwood from South America to
> > Tasmania". Is there other evidence that such dispersal
> > of Nothofagus could have happened? Could certain insects,
> > mosses, or other organisms have hitched a ride on such a
> > Nothofagus raft?
> >
> > --------------Ken Kinman
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom/2006-December/108385.html
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> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
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--
-So many mites, so little time!
Barry M. OConnor
Professor & Curator
Department of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology
Research Museums Center
University of Michigan phone: 734-763-4354
3600 Varsity Drive fax: 734-763-4080
Ann Arbor, MI 48108-2228 e-mail: bmoc at umich.edu
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