[Taxacom] Long-distance oceanic dispersal (rafting) of Nothofagus species

[John Grehan]

Ken,

Its not a testable notion in any real sense any more than attributing the
connection to UFO's. Further, it is not an 'odd' distribution, but one that
is very even (meaning standard). One can invoke any number of imaginary
events to toss plants and animals from one side of the Tasman to the other,
or even just place them there by an Act of God, but there is no empirical
imperative to do so for this any more than imagining a tsunami to toss
frogs from Vancouver to New Zealand.

John Grehan

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 8:38 AM, Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Stephen,
>
>       But it could be somewhat scientifically testable if some organisms
> (mostly likely insects) have the same odd distribution in New Zealand and
> Tasmania (or adjacent Australia).  So I am hoping that some entomologist
> might know of insects that fit the bill.  And if there were more than one
> such organism, the more likely this dispersal scenario would become.
>
>        And note that I cited two different Nothofagus species groups with
> the same odd distribution (one in subgenus Lophozonia and the other in
> subgenus Fuscospora).  And those two dispersals could have happened at
> different times.  So that already increases the probability of dispersal.
> Anyway, at least Fred understood what I was suggesting:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom/2006-December/108388.html
>
>
> -----------------Ken
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:59 PM
> To: Kenneth Kinman
> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Long-distance oceanic dispersal (rafting) of
> Nothofagus species
>
> "Could certain insects, mosses, or other organisms have hitched a ride on
> such a Nothofagus raft?"
>
> Impossible to rule out just about anything that doesn't constantly require
> running freshwater. If it happened during summer, there could be a
> desiccating effect, but at other times the amount of freshwater dampness
> could remain at acceptable levels.
>
> The problem though, as I see it, is that these dispersion events are
> entirely random and unpredictable, so it is hard to base much in the way of
> science on it.
>
> Stephen
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 3/6/18, Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: [Taxacom] Long-distance oceanic dispersal (rafting) of
> Nothofagus      species
>  To: "Kenneth Kinman" <kinman at hotmail.com>
>  Cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>  Received: Sunday, 3 June, 2018, 1:51 PM
>
>  Hi all,
>
>  The recent thread got me thinking about a debate that some
>  of us were having on taxacom almost 12 years ago.  Namely
>  whether long-distance oceanic dispersal (by rafting) was a
>  significant factor in the geographic distribution of some
>  species of Nothofagus (sensu lato).
>
>   My hypothesis was that large rafts of dislodged Nothofagus
>  trees (due to tsunami or other massive flooding event) could
>  have held some of their fruit above the ocean surface and
>  rafted from Tasmania to New Zealand, where one or more  new
>  species could evolve (due to founder effect).  This would
>  be a relatively short rafting event compared to the much
>  longer driftwood oceanic rafting that happened from South
>  America to Tasmania: Barber, 1959, in the journal Nature;
>  "Transport of Driftwood from South America to
>  Tasmania". Is there other evidence that such dispersal
>  of Nothofagus could have happened? Could certain insects,
>  mosses, or other organisms have hitched a ride on such a
>  Nothofagus raft?
>
>                   --------------Ken Kinman
>  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom/2006-December/108385.html
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