[Taxacom] Type localities (was: Bionomina 13 published)

[Geoffrey Read]

What a strange thing to say Stephen.

"Localities are important, type localities much less so"

Are you speaking as a taxonomist?  Sure, a non-taxonomist won't have much
use for the concept.

Geoff

On Tue, January 1, 2019 4:04 pm, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> Geoff,
> You just don't appear to have a clear distinction in your head between
> type localities per se and just localities. Localities are important, type
> localities much less so. Of course, type localities are also localities,
> so are important as localities, but no more so than non-type localities.
> It is the "formalisation" of type localities which gives them spurious
> importance.
> As for the conservation issue, suppose Aus bus has type locality T1 and
> also has synonym Aus cus with type locality T2. It seems that one might
> have more success arguing for protection of T1 if you sell it as the type
> locality for Aus bus, because type localities are perceived (wrongly, in
> my view) to be important. I wonder though, how one would get on arguing
> similarly for protection of T2??
> Cheers,
> Stephen
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 31/12/18, Geoffrey Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Type localities (was: Bionomina 13 published)
>  To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
>  Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu, gread at actrix.gen.nz
>  Received: Monday, 31 December, 2018, 11:38 PM
>
>  Hi Stephen,
>
>  A couple of centuries ago authors did
>  as you describe with no formal types
>  named, but they still might say
>  something like 'I have described the
>  specimens I collected from Tahiti, but
>  I also collected the same species
>  from the Red Sea.' So there were often
>  de facto type localities before it
>  was formalised as such. It's a natural
>  system of working that has evolved
>  as we've got more sophisticated.
>
>  I know nothing about type localities
>  and their use in conservation. What
>  is the issue?
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Geoff
>
>
>  On Mon, December 31, 2018 12:00 pm,
>  Stephen Thorpe wrote:
>  > Geoff,
>  > The concept of a type locality
>  exists only because we happen to have a
>  > typological system of zoological
>  (and botanical) nomenclature. Without
>  > such a typological system of
>  nomenclature, there would be no type
>  > localities, and yet nothing
>  important would be any different. Authors of
>  > new species would still specify
>  the locality/localities of their material
>  > examined, and we would still go to
>  that plane/those places to search for
>  > the species (and to any other
>  subsequently specified localities). You are
>  > conflating two quite different
>  things, and you are not alone! The most
>  > worrying thing is the spurious
>  link between type localities and
>  > conservation. Nomenclatural
>  technicalities have no relevance to
>  > conservation! Note that if an
>  author describes a new species from several
>  > localities, only the locality of
>  the holotype is the type locality, and
>  > yet the locality/localities of the
>  paratypes are just as useful for
>  > looking for the species.
>  > Cheers,
>  > Stephen
>  >
>  >
>  --------------------------------------------
>  > On Sun, 30/12/18, Geoff Read
>  <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
>  wrote:
>  >
>  >Â  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Type
>  localities (was: Bionomina 13 published)
>  >Â  To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>  >Â  Received: Sunday, 30
>  December, 2018, 9:32 PM
>  >
>  >Â  Stephen,
>  >
>  >Â  The importance of a type
>  locality is
>  >Â  that it is, in the whole
>  vast area of
>  >Â  the Earth, the one small
>  spot where the
>  >Â  species is known to occur,
>  and
>  >Â  unfortunately lots of
>  species are only
>  >Â  known from their type
>  localities.
>  >Â  So we don't go looking in
>  the Himalayas
>  >Â  for more of a species whose
>  type
>  >Â  locality is a valley in the
>  Waitakere
>  >Â  Ranges, Auckland, NZ. That
>  would be
>  >Â  absurd.
>  >
>  >Â  That there is by convention
>  a formal
>  >Â  type locality (with a few
>  directions
>  >Â  in the Code to guide us in
>  our use of
>  >Â  it) reduces our
>  >Â  re-locating-the-species
>  problem to
>  >Â  manageable dimensions, and
>  prevents
>  >Â  hijacking of a species
>  concept to an
>  >Â  animal or plant coming from
>  a place
>  >Â  where it is not reasonable
>  that the
>  >Â  species would occur. So we
>  should have
>  >Â  better stability of names
>  via sensible
>  >Â  use of type localities.
>  >
>  >Â  Declaring a nomen dubium is
>  not going
>  >Â  to be 'end-of-story', except
>  if the
>  >Â  name is an obscure one of
>  no
>  >Â  importance. Anyone with a
>  different opinion
>  >Â  to you, or who has gathered
>  more
>  >Â  evidence, could keep using
>  it
>  >Â  subsequently. For a name
>  still useful
>  >Â  with some biology known
>  about the
>  >Â  species the next step might
>  be to ask
>  >Â  the Commission for the bad
>  type to
>  >Â  be replaced with a neotype
>  (hopefully
>  >Â  from the type locality). If
>  there's
>  >Â  no apparent type then any
>  taxonomist
>  >Â  could designate a neotype
>  for your
>  >Â  'nomen dubium' without
>  asking the
>  >Â  Commission. It's not about
>  being
>  >Â  absolutely certain they've
>  determined
>  >Â  the species correctly - it's
>  just a
>  >Â  working solution so that
>  biology can
>  >Â  carry on being done on biota
>  that now
>  >Â  has a fixed name.
>  >
>  >Â  Geoff
>  >
>  >Â  On Sun, December 30, 2018
>  1:36 pm,
>  >Â  Stephen Thorpe wrote:
>  >Â  > All true and pretty
>  much what I
>  >Â  said. However, such a
>  tentative method for
>  >Â  > associating names with
>  species, as
>  >Â  Thomas describes, can hardly
>  be given
>  >Â  > the lofty levels of
>  "importance"
>  >Â  that many taxonomists seem
>  to think! If
>  >Â  > nobody knows which
>  species a name
>  >Â  refers to, then one has two
>  choices: (1)
>  >Â  > tentatively associate
>  the name
>  >Â  with a species based on type
>  locality,
>  >Â  > maybe in conjunction
>  with other
>  >Â  things; or (2) declare the
>  name to be a
>  >Â  > nomen dubium. My main
>  point is
>  >Â  that I know think that (2)
>  is preferable,
>  >Â  > because it has no
>  drawbacks that I
>  >Â  can see, and it avoids
>  working with a
>  >Â  > tentative link which
>  may be wrong
>  >Â  to the extent that the
>  species doesn't
>  >Â  > even occur (and never
>  did) at the
>  >Â  type locality of the name
>  being used for
>  >Â  > it. This could lead to
>  all sorts
>  >Â  of erroneous conclusions
>  about range
>  >Â  > contractions under
>  climate change,
>  >Â  etc., etc., when in fact the
>  species
>  >Â  > never occurred there at
>  all!
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  > Stephen
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â 
>  --------------------------------------------
>  >Â  > On Sun, 30/12/18,
>  Thomas Pape
>  >Â  <tpape at snm.ku.dk>
>  >Â  wrote:
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  Subject: RE:
>  [Taxacom] Type
>  >Â  localities (was: Bionomina
>  13 published)
>  >  >  To: "Stephen
>  Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
>  >Â  > "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
>  >Â  <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,
>  >Â  "Elena
>  >Â  > Kupriyanova" <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
>  >  >  Received: Sunday,
>  30
>  >Â  December, 2018, 11:18 AM
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  The "type locality"
>  is the
>  >Â  locality data
>  >  >  provided for the
>  >Â  name-bearing specimen. No
>  more and no less.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  The type locality
>  is prone
>  >Â  to error and
>  >  >  inaccuracy as any
>  other
>  >Â  piece of information, but it
>  *may*
>  >  >  be of help when a
>  type is
>  >Â  not fit for identification.
>  In
>  >  >  particular when
>  there is
>  >Â  only one candidate species
>  present
>  >  >  at the type
>  locality. An
>  >Â  association between name
>  and
>  >  >  species based only
>  on the
>  >Â  type locality will remain
>  >  >  hypothetical, but
>  the
>  >Â  hypothesis will be
>  corroborated (or
>  >  >  not) as new data
>  emerge. If
>  >Â  nomenclatural instability
>  >  >  remains, it is
>  possible to
>  >Â  submit a Case for the
>  Commission
>  >  >  to set aside the
>  >Â  unidentifiable name-bearing
>  type and
>  >  >  designate one
>  better suited
>  >Â  for nomenclatural
>  stability.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  /Thomas Pape
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  -----Original
>  Message-----
>  >  >  From: Taxacom
>  <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>  >  >  On Behalf Of
>  Stephen Thorpe
>  >  >  Sent: 29. december
>  2018
>  >Â  22:11
>  >  >  To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
>  >  >  Elena Kupriyanova
>  <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
>  >  >  Subject: Re:
>  [Taxacom] Type
>  >Â  localities
>  >  >  (was: Bionomina 13
>  >Â  published)
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  Lena,
>  >  >  Yes, I do have a
>  better
>  >Â  suggestion! If
>  >  >  a taxonomist is
>  ever faced
>  >Â  with a situation in which
>  they
>  >  >  can only use type
>  locality
>  >Â  information to associate a
>  name
>  >  >  with a species,
>  then they
>  >Â  should simply refrain from
>  doing
>  >  >  so and declare the
>  name to
>  >Â  be a nomen dubium. The name
>  can
>  >  >  then be safely
>  ignored,
>  >Â  rather than risk using it
>  for the
>  >  >  wrong species.
>  >  >  Stephen
>  >Â  >
>  >  > 
>  >Â 
>  --------------------------------------------
>  >  >  On Sun, 30/12/18,
>  Elena
>  >Â  Kupriyanova
>  >  >  <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
>  >  >  wrote:
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Subject: RE:
>  [Taxacom] Type
>  >Â  localities
>  >  >  (was: Bionomina 13
>  >Â  published)
>  >  >   To: "Stephen
>  Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
>  >  >  "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
>  >  >  <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>  >  >   Received:
>  Sunday, 30
>  >Â  December, 2018,
>  >  >  9:53 AM
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Stephen,
>  >  >   I
>  >  >   totally
>  agree, such a
>  >Â  scenario does
>  >  >  create a problem.
>  Do you 
>  >Â  have a better suggestion
>  how
>  >  >  to deal with
>  problem?
>  >  >   Lena
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Dr. Elena
>  Kupriyanova
>  >  >   Senior
>  >  >   Research
>  Scientist
>  >  >   Marine
>  Invertebrates
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Associate
>  Editor,
>  >  >   Records of
>  the Australian
>  >Â  Museum
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Australian
>  Museum Research
>  >  >   Institute
>  >  >   1 William
>  Street Sydney NSW
>  >Â  2010
>  >  >   Australia
>  >  >   t 61 2 9320
>  6340   m
>  >  >  
>  61402735679   f 61 2
>  >Â  9320 6059
>  >  >   Visit: http://www.australianmuseum.net.au
>  >  >   Like: http://www.facebook.com/australianmuseum
>  >  >   Follow: http://www.twitter.com/austmus
>  >  >   Watch: http://www.youtube.com/austmus
>  >  >   Inspiring the
>  exploration
>  >Â  of nature
>  >  >  and 
>  cultures
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   -----Original
>  Message-----
>  >  >   From: Stephen
>  Thorpe
>  >Â  [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
>  >  >   Sent: Sunday,
>  30 December
>  >Â  2018 7:16
>  >  >  AM
>  >  >   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
>  >  >   Elena
>  Kupriyanova <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
>  >  >   Subject: RE:
>  [Taxacom] Type
>  >Â  localities
>  >  >  (was:
>  >  >   Bionomina 13
>  published)
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   You
>  >  >   seem to have
>  skirted around
>  >Â  the main
>  >  >  problem I
>  suggested, 
>  >Â  which was 2 or more
>  candidate
>  >  >  species in sympatry
>  at
>  >  the  type locality.
>  It is a very
>  >  >  real possibility.
>  If you 
>  >Â  associated a name with a
>  >  >  species, based on
>  the
>  >  type  locality, then
>  you assume
>  >  >  that the stated
>  type
>  >  locality is  correct
>  and that
>  >  >  there is one and
>  only one
>  >  candidate species 
>  present at
>  >  >  the type locality!
>  For a
>  >Â  real example, a
>  recent 
>  >  >  revision of the
>  genus Sagola
>  >Â  is interesting in that
>  >  >  only  males
>  can be
>  >Â  identified morphologically,
>  but many
>  >  >  old types 
>  are females.
>  >Â  Nevertheless, the authors
>  (Park
>  >  >  &
>  Carlton)  somehow
>  >Â  managed to associate every
>  >  >  unique female
>  holotype 
>  >Â  with a species, based on
>  stated
>  >  >  type localities,
>  despite
>  >  the  fact that
>  distributions
>  >  >  are very
>  imperfectly known,
>  >  sympatry  is common
>  in the
>  >  >  genus, and so many
>  species
>  >  are known from  so
>  few
>  >  >  specimens that
>  further new
>  >Â  species are very
>  likely  (in
>  >  >  sympatry with
>  known
>  >Â  species). Hence, effectively
>  all
>  >  >  the 
>  authors did was to
>  >Â  make decisions as to which
>  >  >  names
>  referred  to which
>  >Â  species, taking type
>  >  >  localities into
>  account,
>  >  but  they might as
>  well have
>  >  >  just considered
>  those old
>  >Â  (female
>  >  >   based) names
>  to be nomina
>  >Â  dubia. The
>  >  >  level of
>  uncertainty 
>  >Â  associated with their
>  approach is
>  >  >  such that some of
>  the
>  >  old  female based
>  species might
>  >  >  not even occur in
>  their
>  >  assigned  type
>  localities, and
>  >  >  there is probably
>  in many
>  >  cases no way  to
>  confirm or
>  >  >  refute that anyway
>  (it could
>  >  lead, for  example,
>  to a
>  >  >  scenario in which
>  the type
>  >  locality, after 
>  more
>  >  >  collecting, turns
>  out to be
>  >  an outlier in the 
>  >  >  distribution of the
>  species,
>  >Â  but then someone will
>  >  >  probably 
>  suggest range
>  >Â  contraction due to climate
>  >  >  change!)
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Stephen
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  > 
>  >Â 
>  --------------------------------------------
>  >  >   On Sun,
>  30/12/18, Elena
>  >Â  Kupriyanova
>  >  >  <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
>  >  >   wrote:
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    Subject:
>  RE:
>  >  >   [Taxacom]
>  Type localities
>  >Â  (was:
>  >  >  Bionomina 13
>  published)
>  >  >    To:
>  "Stephen Thorpe"
>  >  <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, 
>  >  >  "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
>  >  >   <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>  >  >    Received:
>  Sunday, 30
>  >Â  December,
>  >  >  2018,
>  12:07  AM
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    Dr. Elena
>  Kupriyanova
>  >  >    Senior
>  Research
>  >Â  Scientist
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Marine
>  Invertebrates
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Associate
>  Editor,
>  >  >    Records
>  of
>  >  >    the
>  Australian Museum
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   
>  Australian Museum
>  >Â  Research
>  >  >  Institute
>  >  >    1 William
>  Street Sydney
>  >Â  NSW 2010
>  >  >  Australia 
>  t
>  >  >   61 2 9320
>  6340   m
>  >  > 
>  61402735679   f 61 2
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   9320 6059
>  >  >    Visit:
>  >Â  >
> https://apac01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.australianmuseum.net.au&data=02%7C01%7CElena.Kupriyanova%40austmus.gov.au%7C35d9ab42e3194872841008d66dca6516%7C6ee75868f5d64c8cb4cda3ddce30cfd6%7C0%7C0%7C636817113393360695&sdata=V9KcnWtQwtd92OmR719yPtcPJrG23tHT%2BuOPC0okyU8%3D&reserved=0
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>  >Â  >
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>  >Â  >
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>  >  >    Inspiring
>  the
>  >Â  exploration of
>  >  >  nature and 
>  cultures
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   
>  -----Original
>  >Â  Message-----
>  >  >    From:
>  Stephen Thorpe
>  >Â  [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
>  >  >    Sent:
>  Friday, 28
>  >Â  December 2018
>  >  >  3:07 PM
>  >  >    To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
>  >  >    Elena
>  Kupriyanova
>  >Â  <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
>  >  >    Subject:
>  RE: [Taxacom]
>  >Â  Type
>  >  >  localities
>  >  >   (was:
>  >  >    Bionomina
>  13
>  >Â  published)
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    "to find
>  what the name
>  >  >   bearing
>  species
>  >  >    actually
>  is one needs
>  >Â  to
>  >  >   know the type
>  locality"
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    >I
>  disagree! One
>  >Â  simply
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   needs some
>  way to associate
>  >Â  the name
>  >  >  with one and only
>  one 
>  >Â  species in the complex.
>  Very
>  >  >  often, type
>  localities
>  >  are  too 
>  vague to be much use,
>  >  >  might be completely
>  wrong,
>  >  or  there 
>  might be more
>  >  >  than one species of
>  the
>  >  complex in the 
>  stated  type
>  >  >  locality
>  (especially if it
>  >  is a 
>  vague/imprecise type 
>  >  >  locality).
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    Yes, and
>  what is
>  >  >    the
>  above
>  >  >   mentioned
>  "some way"
>  >Â  please?
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    > I
>  expect you are
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   imagining a
>  scenario in
>  >Â  which, say,
>  >  >  some
>  previously 
>  >Â  recognised species is now
>  considered
>  >  >  to be a complex
>  of 
>  >Â  ALLOPATRIC cryptic species
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Not
>  necessarily. I think I
>  >Â  clearly
>  >  >  stated the 
>  scenario I
>  >  >   am not
>  imagining, but am
>  >Â  familiar with
>  >  >  too well - 
>  a huge
>  >  >   species
>  complex under a
>  >Â  name of a
>  >  >  species that
>  is  assumed
>  >  >   to be
>  cosmopolitan for a no
>  >Â  good
>  >  >  reason other
>  than  it 
>  >Â  is
>  >  >   assumed to be
>  cosmopolitan
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   >and you
>  want to know
>  >Â  which of
>  >  >  those
>  cryptic  species
>  >  >   the original
>  name belongs
>  >Â  to.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    Yes,
>  don't we all?
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    >The
>  type locality
>  >Â  MIGHT be a
>  >  >  guide (if
>  >  >   it 
>  is correct, and if
>  >Â  it is precise
>  >  >  enough), but it
>  might
>  >  >   not 
>  be of any use.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    It is
>  >  >   the
>  >  >    best
>  guide we have, but
>  >Â  it MIGHT
>  >  >  in
>  >  >   some cases be
>  incorrect 
>  >Â  or not
>  >  >  precise enough
>  indeed
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    >If it
>  isn't of any
>  >  >   use, then
>  other
>  >  >    means
>  must be sought
>  >Â  to
>  >  >   associate the
>  name with a
>  >  species, 
>  >  >  and there are
>  several
>  >  >   options.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    Ok,
>  continue
>  >  >   please, I
>  really want to
>  >  know  about
>  >  >  those options
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    > In
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   theory, if
>  you could
>  >Â  sequence the
>  >  >  holotype, then
>  DNA 
>  >  >   matching
>  might do the
>  >Â  trick.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    In
>  theory? Have you
>  >Â  tried this
>  >  >  approach?
>  >  >   Yes, 
>  if it exists and
>  >Â  if it was not
>  >  >  fixed in formalin
>  as
>  >  >   most 
>  marine inverts
>  >Â  used to be
>  >  >  fixed, this the
>  best
>  >  >   way.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    >At
>  any rate,
>  >  >   type
>  >  >   
>  localities are not of
>  >Â  any major
>  >  >   importance:
>  they may be 
>  >Â  helpful, but
>  >  >  they may not.
>  >  >   That's all
>  I'm saying
>  >  (in  the
>  >  >  context of people
>  >  >   like Alain
>  Dubious giving
>  >Â  them far
>  >  >  too  much
>  attention,
>  >  >   IMHO)
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    I
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   cannot see
>  where this
>  >Â  (surely
>  >  >  unexpected :)
>  conclusion
>  >  >  
>  comes  from. If the
>  >Â  holotype does not
>  >  >  exist, you collect
>  >  >  
>  fresh  material as close
>  >Â  as possible
>  >  >  to the TYPE
>  >  >  
>  LOCALITY,  designate a
>  >Â  neotype,
>  >  >  describe and
>  sequence it.
>  >  >   If
>  the  holotype exists,
>  >Â  but cannot
>  >  >  be sequenced, you
>  >  >   collect
>  fresh  material
>  >Â  as close as
>  >  >  possible to the
>  TYPE
>  >  >  
>  LOCALITY,  re-descibe
>  >Â  the species
>  >  >  based on the type
>  and the
>  >  >  
>  fresh  material and
>  >Â  sequence the
>  >  >  fresh topotypical
>  >  >   material. If
>  the  type
>  >Â  locality is
>  >  >  not precise enough,
>  you
>  >  >   make an
>  educated  guess
>  >Â  and see
>  >  >  above. If you
>  discover
>  >  >   several
>  cryptic 
>  >Â  sympatric species
>  >  >  the type locality,
>  you
>  >  >   take your
>  pick  which
>  >Â  one you
>  >  >  consider as the
>  name
>  >Â  bearing
>  >  >   species for
>  the 
>  >Â  complex. In all
>  >  >  cases type locality
>  is of
>  >  >  
>  paramount  importance. I
>  >Â  am now
>  >  >  looking forward to
>  hearing
>  >  >   about
>  other  several
>  >Â  options
>  >  >  mentioned above
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    Best,
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Lena
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  > 
>  >Â 
>  --------------------------------------------
>  >  >    On Fri,
>  28/12/18,
>  >Â  Elena
>  >  >  Kupriyanova <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
>  >  >    wrote:
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    
>  >  >   Subject: RE:
>  >  >    [Taxacom]
>  Type
>  >Â  localities
>  >  >   (was:
>  Bionomina 13
>  >Â  published)
>  >  >    
>  To:
>  >  >   "Stephen
>  Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, 
>  >  >   "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
>  >  >    <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>  >  >    
>  Received: Friday, 28
>  >Â  December,
>  >  >  2018,
>  4:22 
>  >  >   PM
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    
>  Yes, of course,
>  >  >   
>  ultimately you
>  >  >    
>  need to know
>  >  >   the
>  >  >   
>  distributions of the
>  >Â  species in
>  >  >  the 
>  >  >   complex. But
>  to figure 
>  >Â  that out one
>  >  >  has to start with
>  >  >   the 
>  distribution of
>  >  the  name
>  >  >  bearing species of
>  the
>  >  >   complex
>  and  to find
>  >  what the  name
>  >  >  bearing species
>  >  >   actually is
>  one needs 
>  >  to know the 
>  >  >  type locality
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >     Dr.
>  Elena
>  >  >   Kupriyanova
>  >  >    
>  Senior
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Research
>  Scientist
>  >  >    
>  Marine
>  >  >  
>  Invertebrates
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    
>  Associate
>  >  >   Editor,
>  >  >    
>  Records of
>  >  >    
>  the
>  >  >   Australian
>  >  >    Museum
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    
>  Australian Museum
>  >  >    Research
>  >  >   Institute
>  >  >     1
>  William Street
>  >Â  Sydney
>  >  >    NSW 2010
>  Australia 
>  >Â  t 61 2 9320
>  >  > 
>  6340   m
>  >  >  
>  61402735679   f
>  >  >    61 2
>  >  >    
>  >  >   9320 6059
>  >  >    
>  Visit:
>  >Â  >
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>  Inspiring the
>  >Â  exploration of nature
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>  >  >   cultures
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    
>  -----Original
>  >  >   Message-----
>  >  >    
>  From: Stephen Thorpe
>  >  >   [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
>  >  >    
>  Sent: Friday, 28
>  >Â  December 2018 1:21
>  >  >  PM
>  >  >     To:
>  taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
>  >  >    
>  Elena Kupriyanova
>  >Â  <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
>  >  >    
>  Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
>  >Â  Type
>  >  >  localities
>  >  >    (was:
>  >  >    
>  Bionomina 13
>  >  >   published)
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    
>  Not
>  >  >    
>  quite!
>  >  >    The type
>  localities
>  >  >   per se still
>  aren't
>  >  important 
>  in 
>  >  >  the situation you
>  >  >   describe.
>  What matters is
>  >  the 
>  >  >  distributions of
>  the
>  >  >   segregate
>  species in the
>  >Â  complex.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    
>  Stephen
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  > 
>  >Â 
>  --------------------------------------------
>  >  >     On
>  Fri, 28/12/18,
>  >Â  Elena Kupriyanova
>  >  >  <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
>  >  >    
>  wrote:
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    Subject:
>  Re:
>  >  >    
>  [Taxacom] Type
>  >  >   localities
>  >  >    (was:
>  Bionomina 13
>  >Â  published)
>  >  >  
>     To:
>  >  >    "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
>  >  >    
>  <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>  >  >  
>     Received: Friday,
>  >Â  28
>  >  >  December, 2018,
>  3:15 
>  >  >   PM
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  
>     > to answer
>  >  >    your
>  >  >    
>  question, I
>  >  >   wouldn't
>  >  >  
>     think type
>  >  >    
>  localities would
>  >  >    be of
>  much
>  >  >   importance at
>  all for 
>  >  a  common,
>  >  >  widespread 
>  uniform
>  >  >   species.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  
>     Oh,
>  >  >    really?
>  Except for the
>  >Â  most
>  >  >  common
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    situation
>  in
>  >Â  shallow-water
>  >  >   marine
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   
>  invertebrates. Once
>  >  >   one 
>  actually bothers to
>  >Â  look more
>  >  >  or  less
>  carefully at
>  >  >   this 
>  "common,
>  >  widespread uniform 
>  >  >  species" and
>  >  >   discovers a
>  huge 
>  >  species complex 
>  >  >  beyond  the
>  façade of
>  >  >   this "common"
>  or even 
>  >Â  "cosmopolitan
>  >  >   species", the
>  importance of
>  >  the 
>  >  >  type 
>  localities
>  >  >   somehow
>  becomes crystal
>  >Â  clear.
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  
>     Dr.
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Elena
>  >  >    
>  Kupriyanova
>  >  >    
>  >  >   Senior
>  >  >    Research
>  Scientist
>  >  >  
>     Marine
>  >  >   
>  Invertebrates
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  
>     Associate
>  >Â  >
>  >  >   Editor,
>  >  >  
>     Records of
>  >  >    
>  >  >   the
>  >  >   
>  Australian Museum
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >    
>  Australian Museum
>  >Â  Research
>  >  >   Institute
>  >  >  
>     1
>  >  >    
>  William
>  >  >   Street Sydney
>  NSW
>  >  >    2010
>  >  >    
>  >  >   Australia
>  >  >  
>     t 61 2
>  >  >    9320
>  >  >  
>  6340   m
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >Â  >
>  >  >  
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>  >Â  9320 6059
>  >  >  
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>  >Â  Ambiguity for 31 Some Years,
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>  >Â  --
>  >Â  Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
>  >Â  Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
>  >Â  gread at actrix.gen.nz
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>  >Â  Nurturing Nuance while
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>  >
>  >
>
>
>  --
>  Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
>  8 Zaida Way, Maupuia
>  Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
>  gread at actrix.gen.nz
>
>
>


--
Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
8 Zaida Way, Maupuia
Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
gread at actrix.gen.nz