[Taxacom] Type localities (was: Bionomina 13 published)

Sat Dec 29 05:07:23 CST 2018

Dr. Elena Kupriyanova
Senior Research Scientist
Marine Invertebrates

Associate Editor,
Records of the Australian Museum

Australian Museum Research Institute
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-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, 28 December 2018 3:07 PM
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu; Elena Kupriyanova <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Type localities (was: Bionomina 13 published)

"to find what the name bearing species actually is one needs to know the type locality"

>I disagree! One simply needs some way to associate the name with one and only one species in the complex. Very often, type localities are too vague to be much use, might be completely wrong, or there might be more than one species of the complex in the stated type locality (especially if it is a vague/imprecise type locality).

Yes, and what is the above mentioned "some way" please?

> I expect you are imagining a scenario in which, say, some previously recognised species is now considered to be a complex of ALLOPATRIC cryptic species

Not necessarily. I think I clearly stated the scenario I am not imagining, but am familiar with too well - a huge species complex under a name of a species that is assumed to be cosmopolitan for a no good reason other than it  is assumed to be cosmopolitan

>and you want to know which of those cryptic species the original name belongs to.

Yes, don't we all?

>The type locality MIGHT be a guide (if it is correct, and if it is precise enough), but it might not be of any use.

It is the best guide we have, but it MIGHT in some cases be incorrect or not precise enough indeed

>If it isn't of any use, then other means must be sought to associate the name with a species, and there are several options.

Ok, continue please, I really want to know about those options

> In theory, if you could sequence the holotype, then DNA matching might do the trick.

In theory? Have you tried this approach? Yes, if it exists and if it was not fixed in formalin as most marine inverts used to be fixed, this the best way.

>At any rate, type localities are not of any major importance: they may be helpful, but they may not. That's all I'm saying (in the context of people like Alain Dubious giving them far too much attention, IMHO)

I cannot see where this (surely unexpected :) conclusion comes from. If the holotype does not exist, you collect fresh material as close as possible to the TYPE LOCALITY, designate a neotype, describe and sequence it. If the holotype exists, but cannot be sequenced, you collect fresh material as close as possible to the TYPE LOCALITY, re-descibe the species based on the type and the fresh material and sequence the fresh topotypical material. If the type locality is not precise enough, you make an educated guess and see above. If you discover several cryptic sympatric species the type locality, you take your pick which one you consider as the name bearing species for the complex. In all cases type locality is of paramount importance. I am now looking forward to hearing about other several options mentioned above

Best,
Lena

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 28/12/18, Elena Kupriyanova <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au> wrote:

 Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Type localities (was: Bionomina 13 published)
 To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Received: Friday, 28 December, 2018, 4:22 PM

 Yes, of course, ultimately you
 need to know the distributions of the species in the  complex. But to figure that out one has to start with the  distribution of the name bearing species of the complex and  to find what the name bearing species actually is one needs  to know the type locality

 Dr. Elena Kupriyanova
 Senior Research Scientist
 Marine Invertebrates

 Associate Editor,
 Records of
 the Australian Museum

 Australian Museum Research Institute
 1 William Street Sydney NSW 2010 Australia  t 61 2 9320 6340   m 61402735679   f 61 2
 9320 6059
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 -----Original Message-----
 From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
 Sent: Friday, 28 December 2018 1:21 PM
 To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
 Elena Kupriyanova <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Type localities (was:
 Bionomina 13 published)

 Not
 quite! The type localities per se still aren't important  in the situation you describe. What matters is the  distributions of the segregate species in the complex.

 Stephen

 --------------------------------------------
 On Fri, 28/12/18, Elena Kupriyanova <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
 wrote:

  Subject: Re:
 [Taxacom] Type localities (was: Bionomina 13 published)
  To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
 <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
  Received: Friday, 28 December, 2018, 3:15  PM

  > to answer your
 question, I wouldn't
  think type
 localities would be of much importance at all for  a  common, widespread uniform species.

  Oh, really? Except for the most common
  situation in shallow-water marine
 invertebrates. Once one  actually bothers to look more or  less carefully at this  "common, widespread uniform  species" and discovers a huge  species complex beyond  the façade of this "common" or even  "cosmopolitan species", the importance of the  type  localities somehow becomes crystal clear.

  Dr. Elena
 Kupriyanova
  Senior Research Scientist
  Marine Invertebrates

  Associate Editor,
  Records of
 the Australian Museum

 Australian Museum Research Institute
  1
 William Street Sydney NSW 2010
  Australia
  t 61 2 9320 6340   m

 61402735679   f 61 2 9320 6059
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