[Taxacom] Important note Re: two names online published - one new species
Michael A. Ivie
mivie at montana.edu
Sun Jan 24 18:49:49 CST 2016
Stephen,
The idea you propose that thousands of years of human induced selection
could be guided by the eventual need for fitting teats to an as yet
unimaginable milking machine illustrates perhaps the best understanding
of your way of thinking we have ever seen. You are a determinalist,
clearly, and think evolution proceeds to a needed end. This also
explains your need to see this Amendment/Zootaxa situation the way you
do. Not sure if this is a lack of logic training in your education or
just something inherent, but it is instructive in understanding your
argument.
In fact, using your court analogy, we have several eye witnesses to the
situation, and they all disagree with your assertions. You were not
there, they were. For you to be right, they must all have conspired to
let this nefarious action occur and cover it up for the benefit of the
evil doer, in effect as a group, aiding a abetting insider advantage,
which is a conspiracy. Since you have no proof, the best you can go for
is a theory. Ipso facto, you are pushing a conspiracy theory, Rich is
vindicated!
All evidence is contrary to your conspiracy theory, as eye witness
testimony is evidence, and nothing you have is.
Mike
On 1/24/2016 5:33 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> Mike, Mike, Mike,
>
> Let me be the first to fess up to talking about something I don't really understand, i.e. milking and selective breeding of cattle. I'm more than happy to defer to you on that one, though I only actually said that your statement (which was clearly intended to sound ridiculous) was perhaps no so far from the truth, that's all. But enough of that digression!
>
> OK, so you are arguing that Zootaxa was made fully compliant with the Amendment after the fact, and every other publisher should do the same, or risk noncompliance issues infecting their output. Well, that is easy to postulate, but difficult to prove (or even support with any real evidence). Maybe this is precisely why COIs should always be avoided, precisely because it raises doubts which can never really be put to rest. If you were on trial Mike (innocent of course!), would you accept one of the jurors being related to the victim?
>
> Stephen
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 25/1/16, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Important note Re: two names online published - one new species
> To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Received: Monday, 25 January, 2016, 1:23 PM
>
> Nah, it was not hypocrisy, it was
> intentional, just payback for your
> actions. And, no, you didn't already answer it, you
> had only addressed
> a unidirectional model of conspiracy and COI. That the
> direction of
> influence was the other way had never been address, more
> smoke and
> mirrors by you.
>
> I take it you have no real experience with milking machines,
> either.
> Your statement would get you laughed out of a milking
> parlor.
>
> Mike
>
> On 1/24/2016 5:18 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> > BTW, Mike, you accuse me of a "personal attack" against
> you (for merely pointing out that you asked something that I
> had already answered!), and then you accuse me of having a
> (your words) "conspiracy fetish"! There is a word beginning
> with H which describes you (and possibly words starting with
> other letters too!) There is no conspiracy, just a common or
> garden case of COI, plain for all the world to see.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Mon, 25/1/16, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Important note
> Re: two names online published - one new species
> > To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > Received: Monday, 25 January, 2016,
> 1:06 PM
> >
> > Stephen,
> >
> > Again, you try to distract us with a
> personal attack,
> > claiming I am not
> > doing something "properly." Do
> try to stick to the
> > topic.
> > Zootaxa dates to before the amendment
> but was not compliant
> > with the
> > amendment before the Amendment was
> proposed, so your straw
> > man is just
> > smoke and mirrors to cover your
> conspiracy fetish.
> > Because Zootaxa was
> > compliant with the Amendment after the
> amendment was
> > adopted, but by the
> > time it was in force, sensibly taking
> advantage of the long
> > announced
> > period between being advertized and
> going into force, is
> > simply the
> > actions of a good editor trying to
> work within the needs of
> > Zoological
> > Nomenclature and our community.
> >
> > Your argument is like saying cow
> udders were designed to
> > optimized the
> > profits of those who make milking
> machines.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > On 1/24/2016 4:37 PM, Stephen Thorpe
> wrote:
> > > If you had read my posts
> properly, Mike, you would
> > already know the answer to that! Which
> came first? Zootaxa
> > or Amendment?
> > >
> > > Stephen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> --------------------------------------------
> > > On Mon, 25/1/16, Michael A. Ivie
> <mivie at montana.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Subject: Re:
> [Taxacom] Important note
> > Re: two names online published - one
> new species
> > > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > Received:
> Monday, 25 January, 2016,
> > 12:23 PM
> > >
> > > Stephen,
> > >
> > > Why is it not
> more likely, in the face
> > of first person
> > > testimony from
> > > those present,
> that Zootaxa was
> > optimized TO THE AMENDMENT,
> > > and not the
> > > other way
> around, which you cling to
> > as a drowning man to a
> > > piece of
> > > styrofoam?
> Seems to me that a
> > publisher that looks at
> > > the amendment,
> > > and sets their
> journal to conform to
> > it should be put up on
> > > a pedestal
> > > as an example to
> the world, not
> > accused of nefarious insider
> > > trading.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > On 1/24/2016
> 2:26 PM, Stephen Thorpe
> > wrote:
> > > > Other
> publishers were no doubt
> > consulted to some
> > > extent, yes.
> Neverthless, we have
> > ended up in a situation
> > > whereby the
> electronic amendment is
> > optimised to the Zootaxa
> > > publishing
> model, and many other
> > publishers fall into a
> > > messy and
> indeterminate basket. Note
> > that the Zootaxa
> > > publishing model
> wasn't created so as
> > to be fully Code
> > > compliant with
> the electronic
> > amendment. The Zootaxa model
> > > predates the
> amendment by several
> > years. At the very least,
> > > Zhang had inside
> knowledge of what was
> > going to result from
> > > the amendment
> well ahead of time, and
> > thereby had an
> > > advantage over
> other publishers.
> > > >
> > > > These are
> facts Frank. I cannot
> > be wrong. Not unless
> > > you can offer a
> convincing alternative
> > explanation as to why
> > > the electronic
> amendment fits Zootaxa
> > hand in glove, while
> > > other publishers
> are left in a gray
> > zone. Well?
> > > >
> > > > Stephen
> > > >
> > > >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > > > On Mon,
> 25/1/16, Frank T. Krell
> > <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Subject:
> RE:
> > [Taxacom] Important note
> > > Re: two names
> online published -
> > one new
> > > species
> > > > To:
> "Stephen
> > Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
> > > "deepreef at bishopmuseum.org"
> > > <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>,
> > > "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
> > > <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,
> > > "'Doug Yanega'"
> <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> > > > Cc:
> "'engel'"
> > <msengel at ku.edu>
> > > > Received:
> > Monday, 25 January, 2016,
> > > 10:16 AM
> > > >
> > > > To
> you. But you
> > are
> > > > wrong.
> You won't
> > be convinced
> > > otherwise, so it
> is
> > > > useless
> to
> > repeat that other
> > > publishers were
> consulted
> > > > etc.
> > > > You
> believe what
> > you want anyway.
> > > > Frank
> > > >
> > > > -----Original
> > Message-----
> > > > From:
> Stephen
> > Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
> > > >
> > > > Sent:
> Sunday,
> > January 24, 2016 2:11
> > > PM
> > > > To:
> Stephen
> > Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>;
> > > > deepreef at bishopmuseum.org;
> > > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
> > > > 'Doug
> Yanega'
> > <dyanega at ucr.edu>;
> > > > Frank
> T. Krell
> > <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> > > > Cc:
> 'engel'
> > <msengel at ku.edu>
> > > > Subject:
> RE:
> > [Taxacom] Important note
> > > Re: two
> > > > names
> online
> > published - one new
> > > species
> > > >
> > > > Frank,
> > > >
> > > > Zootaxa
> > > > is
> very relevant
> > to this whole thread
> > > and wider
> > > > discussion.
> > > >
> > > > Fact
> (1): there
> > > > are
> significant
> > problems with the
> > > electronic
> amendment (no,
> > > > the
> sky isn't
> > falling down, people
> > > aren't running
> > > > for
> the hills in
> > droves, etc., but in
> > > the context of
> > > > zoological
> > nomenclature there are
> > > significant
> problems),
> > > > none
> of which
> > affect the Zootaxa
> > > publishing
> model.
> > > >
> > > > Fact
> (2): the
> > owner of Zootaxa
> > > > is
> a prominent
> > member of the ICZN who
> > > had a
> significant part
> > > > to
> play in the
> > development of the
> > > electronic
> amendment.
> > > >
> > > > Now,
> you can
> > claim, if you
> > > > really
> want to,
> > that facts (1) and (2)
> > > are
> independent,
> > > > coincidence,
> or
> > whatever, but to me it
> > > looks like a
> classic
> > > > case
> of a COI.
> > The best interests of
> > > zoological
> nomenclature
> > > > as
> a whole are
> > not necessarily the
> > > best interests
> of Zootaxa
> > > > in
> particular.
> > You make yourself look
> > > foolish if you
> refuse
> > > > to
> acknowledge
> > the problem here. You
> > > might claim that
> the
> > > > COI
> is
> > outweighed by other more
> > > important
> factors (like,
> > > > maybe,
> keeping
> > the ICZN viable and
> > > running), but it
> is
> > > > really
> > self-evident that the
> > > electronic
> amendment was
> > > > optimised
> for
> > the Zootaxa publishing
> > > model and to
> hell with
> > > > any
> other
> > alternative. There is no
> > > room for doubt
> regarding
> > > > the
> Code
> > compliance of Zootaxa
> > > articles, but
> articles from
> > > > many
> other
> > publishers are very much in
> > > the "how
> liberal
> > > > do
> you feel"
> > bucket, and it isn't
> > > going to be
> long
> > > > before
> > taxonomists start renaming taxa
> > > already named
> by
> > > > others
> in these
> > dubiously valid
> > > publications
> (just like
> > > > Scott
> Thomson
> > renames taxa from
> > > Australasian
> Journal of
> > > > Herpetology).
> > All this is not good! It
> > > isn't a corrupt
> > > > conspiracy,
> or
> > anything of the sort.
> > > It is just not
> good for
> > > > zoological
> > nomenclature, not good for
> > > taxonomy, and
> not good
> > > > for
> science.
> > > >
> > > > Stephen
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > On
> Mon, 25/1/16,
> > Frank T. Krell <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> Subject: RE:
> > > > [Taxacom]
> > Important note Re: two names
> > > online published
> -
> > > > one
> > new species
> > > >
> To: "Stephen
> > > > Thorpe"
> <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
> > > > "deepreef at bishopmuseum.org"
> > > > <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>,
> > > > "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
> > > > <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,
> > > > "'Doug
> Yanega'"
> > <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> > > >
> Cc: "'engel'" <msengel at ku.edu>
> > > >
> Received: Monday, 25
> > January, 2016, 9:40
> > > AM
> > > >
> > > >
> As expected.
> > > >
> Still being
> > pragmatic.
> > > >
> And
> > > >
> Zootaxa again, out
> > of context, but in
> > > your
> > > > mind
> all
> > the time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > >
> > > >
> -----Original
> > > > Message-----
> > > >
> From: Stephen
> > Thorpe
> > > > [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
> > > >
> > > >
> Sent: Sunday,
> > January 24,
> > > > 2016
> 1:37 PM
> > > >
> To: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org;
> > > >
> 'Stephen Thorpe'
> > <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>;
> > > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
> > > > 'Doug
> Yanega'
> > <dyanega at ucr.edu>;
> > > > Frank
> T. Krell
> > <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> > > >
> Cc: 'engel' <msengel at ku.edu>
> > > >
> Subject: RE:
> > [Taxacom] Important note Re:
> > > > two
> names
> > online published - one
> > > new species
> > > >
> > > >
> Frank,
> > > >
> > > >
> That is
> > > >
> a pretty darn
> > liberal
> > > > reinterpretation
> > of:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 8.5.3.1.
> The
> > entry in the
> > > >
> Official Register
> > > > of
> Zoological
> > Nomenclature must give
> > > the name
> and Internet
> > > > address
> of an
> > organization other than
> > > the
> publisher that
> > > > is
> intended to
> > permanently archive the
> > > work in a
> manner
> > > > that
> preserves
> > the content and layout,
> > > and is
> capable of
> > > > doing
> so. This
> > information is not
> > > required
> to appear in
> > > > the
> work
> > itself.
> > > >
> > > >
> If we
> > > > allow
> such
> > dizzying levels of
> > > liberality,
> then it is
> > > > pretty
> much
> > "anything goes"!
> > > Besides,
> publishing
> > > > with
> a publisher
> > that still prints
> > > hard
> copies effectively
> > > > IS
> archiving,
> > but the Code is clearly
> > > not
> concerned with
> > > > "effectively",
> > and it just opens
> > > up a huge
> scope
> > > > for
> everyone to
> > disagree on the
> > > interpretation
> of the
> > > > Code,
> thereby
> > causing instability and
> > > nomenclatural
> chaos
> > > > (none
> of which
> > affects Zootaxa...)
> > > >
> > > >
> Cheers,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Stephen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > >
> On Mon, 25/1/16,
> > Frank T. Krell <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> > > >
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Subject:
> RE:
> > > >
> [Taxacom] Important
> > note Re:
> > > > two
> names online
> > published -
> > > one
> new species
> > > >
> To: "deepreef at bishopmuseum.org"
> > > >
> <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>,
> > > >
> "'Stephen Thorpe'"
> > <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
> > > > "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
> > > >
> <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,
> > > >
> "'Doug Yanega'"
> > <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> > > >
> Cc:
> > "'engel'" <msengel at ku.edu>
> > > >
> Received:
> > Monday, 25 January,
> > > 2016, 9:31
> > > > AM
> > > >
> > > >
> I would
> > see the
> > > > criteria
> > > >
> for
> > availability more
> > > liberally.
> > > > Publishing
> > with a
> > > publisher
> that archives all its
> > > > publications
> > anyway is an
> > > intention
> to archive.
> > > >
> Being
> > > >
> pragmatic.
> > > >
> > > >
> Frank
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> Dr Frank
> > > >
> T. Krell
> > > >
> Curator
> > of
> > > > Entomology
> > > >
> > Commissioner, International
> > > > Commission
> > on Zoological
> > > Nomenclature
> Chair, ICZN
> > > > ZooBank
> > Committee
> > > Department of
> Zoology Denver
> > Museum
> > > > of
> Nature
> > & Science
> > > >
> 2001
> > Colorado
> > > > Boulevard
> > > >
> Denver,
> > CO 80205-5798 USA
> > > >
> Frank.Krell at dmns.org
> > > >
> > > >
> Phone:
> > (+1) (303)
> > > >
> 370-8244
> > > >
> Fax: (+1)
> > (303)
> > > > 331-6492
> > > >
> http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
> > > >
> lab page:
> > http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab
> > > >
> > > >
> Test your
> > powers of
> > > >
> > observation in The
> > > International
> Exhibition
> > > > of
> > Sherlock Holmes, open
> > > until January
> 31. And prepare
> > > > your
> > palate for
> > > >
> > Chocolate: The
> > > > Exhibition,
> > > >
> opening February
> > 12.
> > > >
> > > >
> The
> > > >
> > > > Denver
> Museum of
> > Nature
> > > >
> &
> > Science
> > > >
> salutes the citizens
> > of metro Denver for
> > > > helping
> > fund arts, culture and
> > > science through
> their
> > > > support
> of
> > the Scientific
> > > and Cultural
> Facilities
> > > > District
> > (SCFD).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original
> > > >
> Message-----
> > > >
> From:
> > Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
> > > >
> On Behalf
> > Of Richard Pyle
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> Sent: Sunday,
> > > >
> January
> > > > 24,
> 2016 12:42
> > PM
> > > >
> To:
> > 'Stephen
> > > >
> Thorpe'
> > > >
> <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>;
> > > >
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
> > > >
> 'Doug
> > Yanega' <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> > > >
> Cc:
> > 'engel' <msengel at ku.edu>
> > > >
> Subject:
> > Re: [Taxacom]
> > > Important note
> Re:
> > > >
> two names
> > online published - one
> > > new
> > > > species
> > > >
> > > >
> I can
> > confirm
> > > > that
> the
> > > >
> Archive was added
> > to this record
> > > > at
> 2016-01-23
> > > >
> 12:21:46.330 UTC, by
> > the
> > > > same
> login
> > account that
> > > created
> the original
> > > > registration.
> > Following the
> > > principle
> that the work
> > > > becomes
> > available when all
> > > requirements
> are fulfilled
> > > > (see
> my previous
> > email reply to
> > > Laurent on
> this list),
> > > > and
> assuming all
> > other
> > > requirements for
> publication
> > are
> > > > met,
> my
> > interpretation would be
> > > that the date
> of
> > > > publication
> for
> > purposes of
> > > priority should
> be 23
> > > > January
> > 2016. If numerous copies
> > > of the
> paper edition
> > > > were
> > simultaneously obtainable
> > > prior to
> this date, and
> > > > if
> the
> > paper edition is in
> > > compliance
> with the Code for
> > > > published
> > works printed on
> > > paper, then the
> date of
> > > > publication
> > for purposes of
> > > priority should
> be
> > > > interpreted
> as
> > the date on which
> > > numerous copies
> of the
> > > > printed
> edition
> > were
> > > simultaneously
> obtainable (see
> > > > Art.
> > > >
> > > >
> 21.9).
> > > >
> > > >
> What is,
> > or is
> > > >
> not
> > > >
> visible
> > through the
> > > > ZooBank
> website
> > is irrelevant.
> > > The Code
> makes reference
> > > > to
> content in
> > the Official
> > > Register
> of Zoological
> > > > Nomenclature,
> > only a subset of
> > > which is
> visible on the
> > > > website
> > itself. Future
> > > versions of the
> ZooBank website
> > > > (pending
> > development
> > > >
> support) will
> > include
> > > > more
> > robust and publicly
> > > visible
> documentation of when
> > > > specific
> > items were added
> > > or
> amended.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> Aloha,
> > > >
> Rich
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original
> > Message-----
> > > >
> >
> > From:
> > > >
> Stephen Thorpe
> > [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
> > > >
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, January 24,
> > > 2016 9:25
> > > > AM
> >
> > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
> > > > Doug
> > Yanega > Cc: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org;
> > > > engel
> >
> > Subject: Re:
> > > [Taxacom]
> Important note Re:
> > > > two
> names
> > online published
> > > -
> > one new species
> > > > >
> > > Doug,
> > > > >
> I'm not sure
> > that
> > > > this
> was
> > at all helpful! The
> > > addition of
> the archive
> > > > >
> info
> > isn't date
> > > stamped
> (at least not for
> > > > public
> view).
> > Now the
> > > record
> > misleadingly looks
> > > > like
> valid
> > online first
> > > publication on 4
> January
> > > > 2016:
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> http://zoobank.org/References/07554C01-DEC3-4080-A337-B1F46BC9070F
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > As
> > far as I
> > > >
> know,
> > > >
> the print
> > edition may
> > > > not
> be
> > > >
> published yet (all
> > we > know is
> > > > that
> it is the
> > January
> > > >
> 2016 print
> > issue,
> > > > which
> could
> > be > published
> > > in
> February for all we
> > > > know).
> So there
> > may be no way to
> > > >
> determine the true
> > > > date
> of
> > availability for the new
> > > names.
> > > >
> > > > Even
> if we
> > > can get a
> > > definitive date
> on the hard
> > > > copy,
> this
> > doesn't help much,
> > > unless it is on
> or
> > > > before
> 4 January
> > 2016.
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > Stephen
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > On
> > Sun, 24/1/16, Doug
> > > Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> > > >
> wrote:
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > Subject:
> > > >
> [Taxacom]
> > Important note
> > > >
> > > > Re:
> two names
> > online published -
> > > >
> > > >
> > one
> > new species
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
> > > >
> "engel"
> > <msengel at ku.edu>
> > > >
> > > Received: Sunday, 24
> > > January,
> > > > 2016,
> > > >
> 7:34 PM
> > > >
> > > I sent a
> > > > note
> to the
> > authors of the
> > > >
> Kinzelbachilla paper
> > > > (who
> had
> > not >
> > > been CCed
> before as Mike Engel
> > had),
> > > > and
> they said
> > they have
> > > fixed >
> the ZooBank record
> > > > so
> it now
> > includes the
> > > archive.
> Accordingly, for
> > > > >
> the
> > public record, if
> > > we follow
> the guideline as
> > > > Rich
> > suggested, all
> > > >
> of the criteria
> > for
> > > > availability
> > have now been
> > > fulfilled
> for the
> > name in
> > > > their
> > work.
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > >
> Most
> > interesting of all,
> > > however,
> if that they
> > > > disagree
> > regarding >
> > > these two
> papers
> > describing
> > > > the
> same taxon,
> > despite both
> > > being
> from >
> > > > essentially
> the
> > same type of
> > > amber deposit:
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> "By the way, it is
> > not
> > > > the
> same thing,
> > the eyes, for
> > > instance,
> are >
> > > > strikingly
> > different."
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > In other words,
> > > >
> this
> > > > may
> not be a
> > matter of competing
> > > for
> priority, >
> > > > after
> all,
> > as Hans had
> > > originally
> supposed.
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> Peace,
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > --
> > > >
> > > Doug
> > > > Yanega
> > > >
> > > >
> Dept. of
> > > > Entomology
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > Entomology Research
> > > Museum
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> Univ. of
> > California,
> > > > Riverside,
> CA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 92521-0314
> > > >
> >
> > > skype:
> > > >
> dyanega
> > > >
> > > phone:
> > > > (951)
> > > >
> 827-4315
> > > >
> > > > (disclaimer:
> > opinions are mine,
> > > >
> not
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> UCR's)
> > > >
> >
> > >
> http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
> > > >
> >
> > > "There are
> some
> > > >
> > enterprises in which a
> > > careful
> > > >
> disorderliness
> > >
> > >
> is the
> > > > true
> > method" - >
> > > Herman Melville,
> Moby Dick,
> > > > Chap.
> > > >
> 82 >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > Taxacom Mailing
> > > List
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > >
> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > >
> > > The Taxacom Archive
> > > back to 1992
> > > > may
> > be searched at:
> > > >
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > Celebrating
> > > > 29
> > > >
> years of
> > Taxacom in 2016.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >
> Taxacom
> > Mailing List
> > > >
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > >
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > >
> The
> > Taxacom Archive back to
> > > 1992 may be
> > > > searched
> at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > Celebrating 29 years
> > > > of
> > > >
> Taxacom
> > in 2016.
> > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > Taxacom
> Mailing List
> > > > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > > The Taxacom
> Archive back to 1992
> > may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > > >
> > > > Celebrating
> 29 years of Taxacom
> > in 2016.
> > >
> > > --
> > > __________________________________________________
> > >
> > > Michael A. Ivie,
> Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> > >
> > > US Post Office
> Address:
> > > Montana
> Entomology Collection
> > > Marsh Labs, Room
> 50
> > > 1911 West
> Lincoln Street
> > > Montana State
> University
> > > Bozeman, MT
> 59717
> > > USA
> > >
> > > UPS, FedEx, DHL
> Address:
> > > Montana
> Entomology Collection
> > > Marsh Labs, Room
> 50
> > > 1911 West
> Lincoln Street
> > > Montana State
> University
> > > Bozeman, MT
> 59718
> > > USA
> > >
> > >
> > > (406) 994-4610
> (voice)
> > > (406) 994-6029
> (FAX)
> > > mivie at montana.edu
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing
> List
> > > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > The Taxacom
> Archive back to 1992 may
> > be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > >
> > > Celebrating 29
> years of Taxacom in
> > 2016.
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> >
> > --
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> > Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> >
> > US Post Office Address:
> > Montana Entomology Collection
> > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > 1911 West Lincoln Street
> > Montana State University
> > Bozeman, MT 59717
> > USA
> >
> > UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> > Montana Entomology Collection
> > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > 1911 West Lincoln Street
> > Montana State University
> > Bozeman, MT 59718
> > USA
> >
> >
> > (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> > (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> > mivie at montana.edu
> >
> >
> > .
> >
>
> --
> __________________________________________________
>
> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
> US Post Office Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> USA
>
> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59718
> USA
>
>
> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> mivie at montana.edu
>
>
> .
>
--
__________________________________________________
Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA
UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA
(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu
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