[Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic tidbit

Sat Jan 16 23:06:04 CST 2016

Yes Elena, clearly something is going on here under the surface "philanthropy". Note that either way, the public has to pay to read taxonomic literature, just either (1) they choose what they want to read and pay for it (standard model); or (2) they pay in advance for every single thing that they might want to read (open access). Hmmm...

Stephen

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 17/1/16, Elena Kupriyanova <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic tidbit
 To: "'gread at actrix.gen.nz'" <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
 Cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Received: Sunday, 17 January, 2016, 5:35 PM

 Dear Geoff and et al.,

 I have a strange feeling that  as a hypothetical 30
 year old long-distance truck driver fascinated by beetles
 you would be looking for a well-illustrated BOOK (not a
 Zootaxa article) on beetles of New Zealand. It is unlikely
 that you would be complaining when you learn that you either
 would need to buy such a book or to drive (walk) to a
 library to borrow it. Would this be a case of restricting
 what people can  read because it's not directly
 relevant to their current job or place in society? We all
 buy books, don't we? Why is it ok for us to buy or borrow
 book, but at the same time we are convinced that scientific
 journals should be available to us instantly at a mouse
 click? I am confused now...
 Lena

 Dr. Elena Kupriyanova
 Senior Research Scientist
 Marine Invertebrates

 Associate Editor, 
 Records of the Australian Museum

 Australian Museum Research Institute 
 1 William Street Sydney NSW 2010 Australia 
 t 61 2 9320 6340   m 61402735679   f 61 2 9320 6059
 Visit: http://www.australianmuseum.net.au
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 Inspiring the exploration of nature and cultures

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
 On Behalf Of Geoffrey Read
 Sent: Friday, 15 January 2016 4:53 PM
 To: Stephen Thorpe
 Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic tidbit

 I admire your persistence Stephen!

 Let's say I'm a 30 year old long-distance truck
 driver.  It's okay, but as a child I collected beetles
 and I still dream of becoming a biologist.
 Maybe it won't happen but I'm planning to go to university
 when I've saved up. Meantime I'm fascinated by the articles
 on beetles at Zootaxa, and need them to identify what I see
 in my garden. I contribute to Naturewatch too on my days
 off. Damn, so many of the articles are paywalled! It's
 really frustrating.

 Well Stephen, I reckon truck drivers too should be able to
 read Zootaxa articles gratis and without begging for them if
 it's easy enough for us to make it so.  And I believe
 in not restricting what people can do or read because it's
 not directly relevant to their current job or place in
 society.

 Geoff

 On Fri, January 15, 2016 6:10 pm, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
 > But Geoff, you are a taxonomist and therefore not a
 member of the 
 > public (in the relevant sense). The public should not
 have to pay so 
 > that you just might find something interesting in
 articles that aren't 
 > directly relevant to your work (or at least they should
 be given the 
 > informed choice of whether or not to pay). Don't think
 about it just 
 > from your perspective. Think instead of how much demand
 their really 
 > is for many taxonomic papers, stacked against the cost
 of making all 
 > of them freely available to everybody. There is a
 difference between 
 > "hiding information away" versus using public money to
 make it 
 > available to everyone, when only a handful of
 specialists are remotely interested in reading it.
 >
 > Stephen
 >
 > --------------------------------------------
 > On Fri, 15/1/16, Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
 wrote:
 >
 >  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic
 tidbit
 >  To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >  Received: Friday, 15 January, 2016, 5:17 PM
 >
 >  Stephen,
 >
 >  You say " absolutely no point in paying
 publishers up front  to make 
 > the  publications available freely to everybody in
 the world"
 >
 >  The idea that we should restrict access, hide
 away  information from 
 > the  public, and make it difficult to read our
 works is abhorrent  to 
 > me.
 >  Fortunately we've come a long way in my lifetime
 towards  open 
 > exchange and  discussion - the internet as the
 shining example, and  
 > special mention to  the access via BHL which has
 revolutionized our 
 > work as  taxonomists more  recently.
 >
 >  Every paper published in Zootaxa today was
 paywalled. I  don't have a  
 > subscription, so I don't have the access to Zootaxa
 that I  know you 
 > do,  but I'm interested in dipping into a wide
 range of taxonomy  when 
 > I see  something on the spot that just might be
 worth reading but  is 
 > outside my  narrow specialty. It helps me with my
 own work and it's 
 > good  to see other  ways of doing things,
 interpretations of the code, 
 > and the  new techniques  used. To do that
 today I need to write ten 
 > begging letters,  and wait. Or  pay 140
 dollars ($14 per paper).Â  So 
 > I'll look at none  of them.
 >
 >  Yesterday was short paper day at Zootaxa - every
 one of  those six 
 > was  paywalled (including one from a colleague at
 Elena's  institute), 
 > but could  have so easily have been open access
 and read much more  
 > widely for just  lunch money for most of the
 authors, or around a taxi 
 > fare  if their  employer pays. Hence my
 amazement that people would 
 > not do  that when they  had the chance.
 >
 >  Geoff
 >
 >
 >  -----Original Message-----
 >  From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
 >  On Behalf Of
 >  Stephen Thorpe
 >  Sent: Friday, 15 January 2016 2:46 p.m.
 >  To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
 >  Elena Kupriyanova
 >  <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
 >  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic
 tidbit
 >
 >  Dear Elena,
 >
 >  I like your post because I am trying to get
 people to think  this 
 > matter  through, and your post shows that you are
 starting to do  just 
 > that. There  appears to be a significant group who
 are lobbying for 
 > open  access, even  though, as you correctly
 point out, it is usually 
 > not very  hard to get  hold of publications
 for free, even when they 
 > are not open  access. What  matters is that
 the people who need to 
 > read the publications  can read  them. There
 is absolutely no point in 
 > paying publishers up  front to make  the
 punlications available freely 
 > to everybody in the world,  given that  only
 a few people will ever 
 > need to read most of them!
 >  Somthing very dodgy
 >  is going on here - those who stand to gain
 financially from  open 
 > access  are lobbying hard in favour of it! No
 surprises there,  really 
 > ...
 >
 >  Stephen
 >
 >  --------------------------------------------
 >  On Fri, 15/1/16, Elena Kupriyanova <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
 >  wrote:
 >
 >   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paywall our
 taxonomic tidbit
 >   To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
 >  <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >   Received: Friday, 15 January, 2016,
 1:07 PM
 >
 >   Dear colleagues,
 >
 >   I am really confused by now re what
 the point of this
 >   discussion is. Should we make our
 taxonomic papers open
 >   access or should we use our grant
 money to do so instead  of
 >   paying for it out our own pockets? I
 honestly cannot see  any
 >   paywall - whenever I need a paper, I
 just write to the
 >   author and ask for a pdf. I am happy
 to send my own papers
 >   to anybody who cares to read them
 (gosh, where is a chance
 >   they might even cite me ;) Besides,
 there is
 >   Researchgate...
 >   Best,
 >   Lena
 >
 >   Dr. Elena Kupriyanova
 >   Senior Research Scientist
 >   Marine Invertebrates
 >
 >
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 --
 Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
 8 Zaida Way, Maupuia
 Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
 gread at actrix.gen.nz

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