[Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic tidbit
Stephen Thorpe
stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Thu Jan 14 18:22:36 CST 2016
Mike,
>Publishing is not free, the publisher has costs, and someone has to pay those costs. Why would people think research costs money but publishing does not?<
Yes, indeed, and the answer to your question is that they don't. Here's a novel idea, Mike, how about the reader pays to read the publication, if they want to read it. For publications of limited interest, the total cost of readers paying to read is going to be far less than the total cost of authors paying open access costs set by publishers at very "optimistic" predictions of likely readership. So, the ones important to the particular research can read it, either by getting it free from an author/colleague, or by paying to read it. Let me put it as clearly as I can:
Suppose that n people want to read a given publication. Suppose that they each must pay $100 (from public money) to the publisher in order to read it. It is quite possible that 100n is significantly less than $20/page for open access, given that no more than n people want to read it. Multiply all that by the vast number of limited interest taxonomic articles that get published every year, and the difference in cost gets even greater.
Open access is good news for publishers and good news for institutions who claim overheads on grants gained by employees, but bad news for the public. For the public, it is analogous to helping the proverbial old lady cross the street who doesn't want to go! Look we have paid the publishers (with your money) so you can read it for free! Great, but I didn't want to read it!
Stephen
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 15/1/16, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic tidbit
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Received: Friday, 15 January, 2016, 12:44 PM
Com'on, Stephen,
Publication costs are allowed
in every grant I have ever gotten,
reviewed
or awarded. It would be simply stupid for an agency to
fund
research but not dissemination of the
findings. It does not matter how
many
people want to read it as long as the ones important to the
particular research can read it. This is
very simple stuff, very odd
you don't
understand this. These costs are a minor
percentage of a
grant, maybe $300 in a
$25,000 grant.
Publishing
is not free, the publisher has costs, and someone has to pay
those costs. Why would people think
research costs money but publishing
does
not?
Mike
On 1/14/2016 4:24 PM, Stephen
Thorpe wrote:
> Cut the ad hominem
rhetoric Frank. I don't see evil everywhere. But I can
do the maths and see that $20/page multiplied by many
thousands/year of taxonomic papers of limited interest
amounts to a significant amount of public money spent on
making stuff available to read when hardly anyone wants to
read it. It is also an incentive for some authors to pad out
their papers to be as long winded as possible.
>
> Stephen
>
>
--------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 15/1/16, Frank T. Krell <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom]
Paywall our taxonomic tidbit
> To: "Stephen
Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
"taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
<taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,
"Peter Uetz" <peter at uetz.us>
> Received: Friday, 15 January,
2016, 11:51 AM
>
> Disseminating results is
> an essential part of the
scientific endeavor. If public
> money is intended for
research, this includes making the
> results known.
>
> You see evil
> problems everywhere,
don't you, Stephen. Even in a
> $20/page open access
charge.
>
> Frank
>
>
> Dr Frank T. Krell
> Curator of
> Entomology
> Commissioner,
International
> Commission
on Zoological Nomenclature
> Chair,
> ICZN ZooBank Committee
> Department of Zoology
>
> Denver Museum of Nature &
Science
> 2001 Colorado
Boulevard
> Denver, CO
80205-5798 USA
> Frank.Krell at dmns.org
>
> Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
> Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
> http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
> lab page: http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
> On Behalf Of Stephen
Thorpe
> Sent: Thursday,
> January 14, 2016 3:02 PM
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
> Peter Uetz <peter at uetz.us>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
Paywall our taxonomic
> tidbit
>
> Peter Uetz said:
> Just make your papers
available to everybody, not just the
> few lucky ones
>
> Not sure if
> he was being sarcastic? I
hope so. It amounts to "just
> make your papers available to
everybody (whether they want
> to read it or not), not just
the few who actually want to
> read it (and pay for it with
public money intended for
> research!)"
>
> Stephen
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 15/1/16, Peter Uetz
<peter at uetz.us>
> wrote:
>
>
Subject: Re:
> [Taxacom]
Paywall our taxonomic tidbit
>
To:
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Received: Friday, 15 January, 2016,
7:20 AM
>
>
> Yes! —
> Zootaxa is probably the best
deal you can get.
> I paid for an
open access paper in Zootaxa out
> of my own pocket, and this
was a single author paper.
>
> For teams, some of which may
> have grant money available,
it is a no brainer.
> Just make
your papers available to everybody,
> not just the few lucky
ones.
> Especially
> if you believe that nothing
in biology makes sense except
> in the light of taxonomy,
sorry..., evolution
> :)
>
>
> >
------------------------------
>
>
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 13:58:22
+1300
> > From:
"Geoff Read" <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
> > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > Subject: [Taxacom]
Paywall our taxonomic tidbit >
> Message-ID:
> > <88e32d0d97f3055d3f25280814fd767f.squirrel at my.actrix.co.nz>
> > Content-Type:
> text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> > Am I
> unreasonable in expecting
minor contributions to Zootaxa
> to be > affordable for
authors as open access as a
> convenience for their
readers?
> > For
> instance that's USD 20
for each author in today's
> worst 2 page case!
> > Hopefully they earn
> (or did) much more that per
hour.
> >
>
> http://www.mapress.com/j/zt/article/view/zootaxa.4066.2.5
> >
> >
Happens quite
> frequently -
what are these contributors thinking? Should
> we > perhaps start a
fund to help them out?
> >
> > --
>
> > Geoffrey B. Read,
Ph.D.
> >
> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> > gread at actrix.gen.nz
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Peter Uetz, PhD
> Associate
> Professor
> Center for the Study of
> Biological Complexity
Virginia Commonwealth University
>
1015 Floyd Ave
> PO Box
> 842030
>
Richmond, VA 23284
>
>
>
Ph: 804-827-4573
>
> http://csbc.vcu.edu/people/
> http://www.vcu.edu/csbc/uetz/uetz2.html
>
>
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--
__________________________________________________
Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
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