[Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers
Scott Thomson
scott.thomson321 at gmail.com
Tue Oct 13 18:21:35 CDT 2015
Heya,
makes sense thanks, and yes I agree Stephen doing anything before final
version would not be wise. My question was hypothetical.
Cheers, Scott
On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 8:17 PM, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
wrote:
> Frank said >In catalogues I would just use the page numbers of the paper
> integrated in a journal issue, and not the former page numbers of the early
> electronic publication, because the journal pagination is there to stay<
>
> Except if the print issue has not been published yet! If Scott's question
> was indeed just about citation of page numbers before the print edition is
> published, then it is customary to cite, e.g. [3] for the third page.
> However, if Scott's question was more about preliminary versions published
> electronically, then one would be very unwise to synonymise anything until
> the final version of record is published!
>
> Stephen
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 14/10/15, Frank T. Krell <Frank.Krell at dmns.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary
> electronic versions of taxonomic papers
> To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, "Scott Thomson" <
> scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Received: Wednesday, 14 October, 2015, 12:11 PM
>
> This is almost true,
> Stephen. There is indeed no mandatory page priority in
> zoological nomenclature. It is merely a convention some
> people like to follow (often because they think that there
> is something like page priority in the Code).
> However, we have Recommentation 69A.10,
> referring to the selection of type species: "All
> otherthings being equal, preference should be given to the
> nominal species cited first in the work, page or line
> ("position precedence")." This is a
> non-mandatory Recommendation, and we have to see if it
> survives the editing process for the next Code. I am not
> sure that this Recommendation makes much sense.
>
> Position precedence works well
> with a changing set of page numbers, e.g. when an early
> electronic publication with page numbers 1-11 gets
> integrated into a journal issue and ends up to be on pages
> 254-265. As long as the pagination goes in single steps from
> the lower to the higher number, there is no problem at all
> to determine position precedence :-)
>
> Of course, for cataloguers changing page
> numbers are very inconvenient, but as long as we still have
> journal issues to be compiled after the early electronic
> publication of the papers, this is an inconvenience we will
> have to live with, and we can easily live with. In
> catalogues I would just use the page numbers of the paper
> integrated in a journal issue, and not the former page
> numbers of the early electronic publication, because the
> journal pagination is there to stay.
>
> Cheers
>
> Frank
>
>
> Dr. Frank-T. Krell, Chair, ZooBank Committee
> http://zoobank.org
> Commissioner, International Commission on
> Zoological Nomenclature
> Curator of
> Entomology
> Department of Zoology
> Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> 2001 Colorado Boulevard
> Denver, CO 80205-5798 USA
> Frank.Krell at dmns.org
>
> Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
> Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
> http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
> lab page: http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 4:58 PM
> To: Frank T. Krell; Scott Thomson
> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural
> availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic
> papers
>
> There is no such
> thing as page priority in zoological nomenclature.
>
> Stephen
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 14/10/15, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re:
> [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary
> electronic versions of taxonomic papers
> To:
> "Frank T. Krell" <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> Cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
> <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Received: Wednesday, 14 October, 2015, 11:38
> AM
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> I find this an
> interesting
> topic and have a question, I am
> currently reading both yours and Alain's papers. I
> accept this is a rare scenario however it does happen.
> In the event of a later reviewer of a taxonomic work
> which has named several species in the same work, decides
> the taxa are not all valid and wishes to synonymise them
> into less taxa (hypothetical example here) if we are
> accepting the final immutable version whether or not it
> has the metadata are you suggesting that if we need to
> use pagination for determining priority, we take that by
> implication? By that I mean just use the logical
> sequence of the pages to determine priority. Or once
> the version with the metadata is out use that to
> determine the sequence of the descriptions, but use
> the date of the final immutable version as the date of
> publication? There are very old texts where that was
> necessary so its not without precedent however to my
> knowledge no recent papers required this.
>
> Sorry for
>
> what sounds like a nit picking question, its not meant to
> be, I just like to see the bases covered and its a
> difficulty that came to mind.
>
> Cheers, Scott
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Frank T.
> Krell <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> >
> >
> my paper on the
> same topic that Dubois et al. suggest to reject is also
> > available on Research Gate and academia.edu:
> >
> >
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274372707_A_mixed_bag_when_are_early_online_publications_available_for_nomenclatural_purposes
> >
> >
> https://www.academia.edu/11757528/A_mixed_bag_when_are_early_online_publications_available_for_nomenclatural_purposes
> >
> > I consider my
> suggestions a more realistic and workable
> approach.
> >
> > All
> the best
> >
> >
> Frank
> >
> > Dr.
> Frank-T. Krell,
> Chair, ZooBank Committee
> > http://zoobank.org
>
> >
> Commissioner, International Commission
> on Zoological Nomenclature > Curator of Entomology
> > Department of Zoology > Denver Museum of Nature
> & Science >
> 2001 Colorado
> Boulevard
> > Denver, CO
>
> 80205-5798 USA
> > Frank.Krell at dmns.org
> > Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
> > Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
>
> > http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
> > lab page: http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab >
> > > > > > -----Original
> Message-----
> > From:
> Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
> On Behalf Of
> > Alain
> Dubois
> > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015
> 6:29 PM > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > Subject: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of
> preliminary electronic > versions of taxonomic
> papers > > Dear Colleagues, > > We
> published in the *Bulletin of Zoological Nomenclature* a
> paper dealing > with the electronic availability of
> preliminary versions (so-called 'early >
> views') of taxonomic papers containing new names or
> nomenclatural acts.
> >
>
> > This paper can be downloaded at:
>
> >
> >
> >
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282651131_Nomenclatural_availability_of_preliminary_electronic_versions_of_taxonomic_papers_in_need_of_a_clear_definition
> >
> > or
>
> >
> >
> >
>
> https://www.academia.edu/16552783/Nomenclatural_availability_of_preliminary_electronic_versions_of_taxonomic_papers_in_need_of_a_clear_definition
> >
> > In this paper,
> we
> proposed the creation of a
> 'label' for journals taking > the engagement
> to publish online only one version of each paper, with
> its > final date, issue number and pagination.
> >
> >
>
> Colleagues, editors and publishers interested in this
> proposal of label > are welcome to contact us at
> <zoonomina at gmail.com>.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Alain Dubois
> >
> >
>
> ____________________________________
>
> >
> > Professeur Alain Dubois
> > Muséum National d'Histoire
> Naturelle
> > Institut
> Systématique,
> Evolution, Biodiversité
> (ISYEB) - UMR 7205 Reptiles > & Amphibiens CP 30
> > 25 rue Cuvier > 75005 Paris > France
> > > emails: <adbionomina at gmail.com>,
> <adpeerj at gmail.com>,
> <adubois at mnhn.fr>
> > > Chief Editor, Bionomina > <http://www.mapress.com/bionomina>
> >
> > Nomenclature
> Editor,
> Zootaxa
> >
> <http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/>
> >
> > Academic Editor,
> PeerJ
> > <https://peerj.com>
>
> > ____________________________________
>
> >
> > “La culture ce
>
> n’est pas avoir le cerveau farci de dates, de noms ou
> de > chiffres, c’est la qualité du jugement,
> l’exigence logique, l’appétit de la > preuve, la
> notion de la complexité des choses et de l’arduité
> des > problèmes. C’est l’habitude du doute, le
> discernement dans la méfiance, la > modestie
> d’opinion, la patience d’ignorer, la certitude qu’on
> n’a jamais > tout le vrai en partage; c’est avoir
> l’esprit ferme sans l’avoir rigide, > c’est être
> armé contre le flou et aussi contre la fausse précision,
> c’est > refuser tous les fanatismes et jusqu’à
> ceux qui s’autorisent de la raison; > c’est
> suspecter les dogmatismes officiels mais sans profit pour
> les > charlatans, c’est révérer le génie mais
> sans en faire une idole, c’est > toujours préférer
> ce qui est à ce qu’on préférerait qui fût.”
> >
> (Jean Rostand, Le droit
> d’être naturaliste, 1963).
> >
> ____________________________________
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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> >
> > Celebrating 28
> years
> of Taxacom in 2015.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Scott Thomson
> Museu de Zoologia
> da
> Universidade de São Paulo
> Divisão de
> Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
>
> Avenida Nazaré,
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>
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> Taxacom in 2015.
>
>
>
--
Scott Thomson
Museu de Zoologia da Universidade de São Paulo
Divisão de Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
Avenida Nazaré, 481, Ipiranga
04263-000, São Paulo, SP, Brasil
http://www.carettochelys.com
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