[Taxacom] Rejoinder to a monster review

Fri Dec 5 14:31:35 CST 2014

I think the suppression topic emerged from your observation of not being
allowed the opportunity to respond to comments on your book.

John Grehan

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Neal Evenhuis <neale at bishopmuseum.org>
wrote:

>  .. I think a number of us are already being taxed by this thread ...
>
> 😀
>
> but I'm not deleting anything for fear I'll be seen as somehow suppressing
> something in some fashion or other ...
>
> On Stardate 12/5/14 9:27 AM, "Richard Zander" <Richard.Zander at mobot.org>
> wrote:
>
> >What a strange discussion! I hope I did not give the impression that I
> >wanted to suppress phylogenetics. Certainly not! There is much to faintly
> >praise about phylogenetics.
> >
> >Phylogenetics should be taxed. The proceeds to help mitigate the
> >epistemological loss of taxa through lumping, splitting, and hiding in an
> >avalanche of molecularly cryptic species, genera and families. Imagine a
> >virtual zoo or garden devoted to the memory of phylogenetically extinct
> >families.
> >
> >☺
> >
> >
> >-------
> >Richard H. Zander
> >Missouri Botanical Garden – 4344 Shaw Blvd. – St. Louis – Missouri –
> >63110 – USA
> >richard.zander at mobot.org<mailto:richard.zander at mobot.org>
> >Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm and
> >http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
> >
> >From: John Grehan [mailto:calabar.john at gmail.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 3:12 PM
> >To: Richard Jensen
> >Cc: Richard Zander; Taxacom(taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu}
> >Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Rejoinder to a monster review
> >
> >Richard,
> >My claim is based on my experience of what I have seen. It is evident to
> >me that suppression of viewpoints does occur, either with intent or just
> >as a consequence of one’s choice (and I do not exclude myself). In
> >biogeography I tend to work in a traditional plate tectonics paradigm,
> >but I am aware of others such as expanding earth. The latter may be
> >valid, I don’t know, but in making a choice to use plate tectonic models
> >I suppose that I am suppressing consideration of the alternative.
> >
> >This choice suppression may be considered different to active suppression
> >where scientists may either prevent publication of alternatives, or
> >represent a field as if other viewpoints do not exist. Of course proof is
> >not always possible, but there are some instances I have seen. In once
> >case a letter from an editor stated that papers mentioning Croizat would
> >not be published in his journal as long as he was editor. In a recent
> >instance Systematic Biology published a paper more or less calling for
> >the banning of panbiogeography, and this being compounded by a refusal to
> >publish a response (not by me). Obviously I am referring to my own pet
> >issues, but they illustrate the principle that within science suppression
> >does occur in various forms, justified or not.
> >
> >John Grehan
> >
> >
> >
> >On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Richard Jensen
> ><rjensen at saintmarys.edu<mailto:rjensen at saintmarys.edu>> wrote:
> >John,
> >Can you please cite references for your claim that the "process of
> >science is...to suppress".  While I know that there are numerous
> >instances of movements to suppress information, I wasn't aware that such
> >suppression was part of the process, at least not as I understand the
> >process of science.
> >Dick J
> >
> >On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 4:22 PM, John Grehan
> ><calabar.john at gmail.com<mailto:calabar.john at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >I get the impression that quite a few natural science journals shy away
> >from allowing debate or responses. Syst Biol certainly went that way over
> >the attack they published against panbiogeography so I suppose its not
> >surprising to see in other journals. After all, the process of science is
> >not only to discover, but also to suppress. Not good or bad, but just the
> >way it works.
> >
> >John Grehan
> >
> >On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Richard Zander
> ><Richard.Zander at mobot.org<mailto:Richard.Zander at mobot.org>>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Taxacomers:
> >>
> >> A monster review of my book was published by the journal Cladistics, but
> >> they refused to publish my rebuttal. Another journal with a kindly
> >>editor
> >> did so, however.
> >>
> >> My rejoinder to this nasty review was entirely collegial, gentle, caring
> >> and supportive of all forms of systematics, and I hope solvent of
> >> misunderstandings. I only mentioned Hitler once.
> >>
> >> Those of you who continue to enjoy the continuing and increasingly
> >>surreal
> >> drama of the paraphyly wars might view my review of the review:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://phytoneuron.net/2014Phytoneuron/110PhytoN-ParaphylophilyResponse.p
> >>df
> >>
> >> Richard
> >>
> >>
> >> -------
> >> Richard H. Zander
> >> Missouri Botanical Garden - 4344 Shaw Blvd. - St. Louis - Missouri -
> >>63110
> >> - USA
> >>
> >>richard.zander at mobot.org<mailto:richard.zander at mobot.org><mailto:richard
> .
> >>zander at mobot.org<mailto:richard.zander at mobot.org>>
> >> Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm and
> >> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Taxacom Mailing List
> >> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> >> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >>
> >> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Taxacom Mailing List
> >Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> >http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> >Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Richard Jensen, Professor
> >Department of Biology
> >Saint Mary's College
> >Notre Dame, IN 46556
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Taxacom Mailing List
> >Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> >http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> >Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>
>
> This message is only intended for the addressee named above.  Its contents
> may be privileged or otherwise protected.  Any unauthorized use, disclosure
> or copying of this message or its contents is prohibited.  If you have
> received this message by mistake, please notify us immediately by reply
> mail or by collect telephone call.  Any personal opinions expressed in this
> message do not necessarily represent the views of the Bishop Museum.
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>