[Taxacom] Rejoinder to a monster review

Wed Dec 3 18:24:31 CST 2014

Thanks, Robin!

Dick

On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Robin Leech <releech at telus.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
> I think John is using the wrong word - suppression.
> As Dick points out, one of his roles is to identify the faulty science,
> then show the reasons it is faulty.  There is no suppression this way.
> Everything is out in the open for all to see.
> Robin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
> John Grehan
> Sent: December-03-14 5:07 PM
> To: Richard Jensen
> Cc: Taxacom(taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu}
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Rejoinder to a monster review
>
> Dick,
>
> The process of science is the actions of individuals (whether as a group
> of individuals or separate individuals). If suppression is part of those
> actions then it is part of the process of science just as much as
> individuals such as yourself.
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Richard Jensen <rjensen at saintmarys.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > These examples reflect the decisions/opinions of individuals (perhaps
> > groups of individuals), not of the process of science.  I still
> > contend that suppression of knowledge is not part of the scientific
> > endeavor (i.e., the process of science).  My role as a scientist is
> > not to suppress airing of ideas put forth by others.  Rather, my role,
> > if I believe those ideas are not worthy of being treated as science,
> > is to provide evidence to refute those ideas.
> >
> > Dick J
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 5:38 PM, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> And I must cite another explicit example. The editors of the popular
> >> science Journal 'Natural History' sent me a letter stating that they
> >> would never publish any viewpoint that did not conform to the
> >> molecular theory of humans and chimpanzees being most closely
> >> related. They would not allow molecular theory to be challenged. This
> >> from a journal that has its very reason for existence as the
> dissemination of science.
> >>
> >> John Grehan
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Richard Jensen
> >> <rjensen at saintmarys.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> John,
> >>>
> >>> Can you please cite references for your claim that the "process of
> >>> science is...to suppress".  While I know that there are numerous
> >>> instances of movements to suppress information, I wasn't aware that
> >>> such suppression was part of the process, at least not as I
> >>> understand the process of science.
> >>>
> >>> Dick J
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 4:22 PM, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I get the impression that quite a few natural science journals shy
> >>>> away from allowing debate or responses. Syst Biol certainly went
> >>>> that way over the attack they published against panbiogeography so
> >>>> I suppose its not surprising to see in other journals. After all,
> >>>> the process of science is not only to discover, but also to
> >>>> suppress. Not good or bad, but just the way it works.
> >>>>
> >>>> John Grehan
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Richard Zander <
> >>>> Richard.Zander at mobot.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > Taxacomers:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > A monster review of my book was published by the journal
> >>>> > Cladistics,
> >>>> but
> >>>> > they refused to publish my rebuttal. Another journal with a
> >>>> > kindly
> >>>> editor
> >>>> > did so, however.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > My rejoinder to this nasty review was entirely collegial, gentle,
> >>>> caring
> >>>> > and supportive of all forms of systematics, and I hope solvent of
> >>>> > misunderstandings. I only mentioned Hitler once.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Those of you who continue to enjoy the continuing and
> >>>> > increasingly
> >>>> surreal
> >>>> > drama of the paraphyly wars might view my review of the review:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> http://phytoneuron.net/2014Phytoneuron/110PhytoN-ParaphylophilyResp
> >>>> onse.pdf
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Richard
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > -------
> >>>> > Richard H. Zander
> >>>> > Missouri Botanical Garden - 4344 Shaw Blvd. - St. Louis -
> >>>> > Missouri -
> >>>> 63110
> >>>> > - USA
> >>>> > richard.zander at mobot.org<mailto:richard.zander at mobot.org>
> >>>> > Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
> >>>> > and http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > Taxacom Mailing List
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> >>>> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> >>>> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
> >>>> >
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Taxacom Mailing List
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> >>>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >>>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> >>>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >>>>
> >>>> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Richard Jensen, Professor
> >>> Department of Biology
> >>> Saint Mary's College
> >>> Notre Dame, IN 46556
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Richard Jensen, Professor
> > Department of Biology
> > Saint Mary's College
> > Notre Dame, IN 46556
> >
> _______________________________________________
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>
> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>
>

-- 
Richard Jensen, Professor
Department of Biology
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, IN 46556