[Taxacom] Rejoinder to a monster review

[Robin Leech]

Hi All, 
I think John is using the wrong word - suppression.
As Dick points out, one of his roles is to identify the faulty science, 
then show the reasons it is faulty.  There is no suppression this way. 
Everything is out in the open for all to see.
Robin

-----Original Message-----
From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of John Grehan
Sent: December-03-14 5:07 PM
To: Richard Jensen
Cc: Taxacom(taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu}
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Rejoinder to a monster review

Dick,

The process of science is the actions of individuals (whether as a group of individuals or separate individuals). If suppression is part of those actions then it is part of the process of science just as much as individuals such as yourself.

John Grehan

On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Richard Jensen <rjensen at saintmarys.edu>
wrote:

> John,
>
> These examples reflect the decisions/opinions of individuals (perhaps 
> groups of individuals), not of the process of science.  I still 
> contend that suppression of knowledge is not part of the scientific 
> endeavor (i.e., the process of science).  My role as a scientist is 
> not to suppress airing of ideas put forth by others.  Rather, my role, 
> if I believe those ideas are not worthy of being treated as science, 
> is to provide evidence to refute those ideas.
>
> Dick J
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 5:38 PM, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> And I must cite another explicit example. The editors of the popular 
>> science Journal 'Natural History' sent me a letter stating that they 
>> would never publish any viewpoint that did not conform to the 
>> molecular theory of humans and chimpanzees being most closely 
>> related. They would not allow molecular theory to be challenged. This 
>> from a journal that has its very reason for existence as the dissemination of science.
>>
>> John Grehan
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Richard Jensen 
>> <rjensen at saintmarys.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Can you please cite references for your claim that the "process of 
>>> science is...to suppress".  While I know that there are numerous 
>>> instances of movements to suppress information, I wasn't aware that 
>>> such suppression was part of the process, at least not as I 
>>> understand the process of science.
>>>
>>> Dick J
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 4:22 PM, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I get the impression that quite a few natural science journals shy 
>>>> away from allowing debate or responses. Syst Biol certainly went 
>>>> that way over the attack they published against panbiogeography so 
>>>> I suppose its not surprising to see in other journals. After all, 
>>>> the process of science is not only to discover, but also to 
>>>> suppress. Not good or bad, but just the way it works.
>>>>
>>>> John Grehan
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Richard Zander < 
>>>> Richard.Zander at mobot.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Taxacomers:
>>>> >
>>>> > A monster review of my book was published by the journal 
>>>> > Cladistics,
>>>> but
>>>> > they refused to publish my rebuttal. Another journal with a 
>>>> > kindly
>>>> editor
>>>> > did so, however.
>>>> >
>>>> > My rejoinder to this nasty review was entirely collegial, gentle,
>>>> caring
>>>> > and supportive of all forms of systematics, and I hope solvent of 
>>>> > misunderstandings. I only mentioned Hitler once.
>>>> >
>>>> > Those of you who continue to enjoy the continuing and 
>>>> > increasingly
>>>> surreal
>>>> > drama of the paraphyly wars might view my review of the review:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> http://phytoneuron.net/2014Phytoneuron/110PhytoN-ParaphylophilyResp
>>>> onse.pdf
>>>> >
>>>> > Richard
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > -------
>>>> > Richard H. Zander
>>>> > Missouri Botanical Garden - 4344 Shaw Blvd. - St. Louis - 
>>>> > Missouri -
>>>> 63110
>>>> > - USA
>>>> > richard.zander at mobot.org<mailto:richard.zander at mobot.org>
>>>> > Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm 
>>>> > and http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>>>> > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>>> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>>>> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>> >
>>>> > Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>>>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>>
>>>> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Jensen, Professor
>>> Department of Biology
>>> Saint Mary's College
>>> Notre Dame, IN 46556
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Richard Jensen, Professor
> Department of Biology
> Saint Mary's College
> Notre Dame, IN 46556
>
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org

Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.