[Taxacom] teleology example

Sat Mar 9 08:10:12 CST 2013

Why not instead ban posts objecting to the discussion of the use (misuse)
of purpose?

John Grehan

On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 10:54 PM, JF Mate <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com> wrote:

> Lets kill this thread by banning the word "purpose" from Taxacom. In
> fact lets enable a filter that will automatically reject emails
> containing said word.
>
> And to the other Kiwis in Taxacom. Do you guys also talk like HAL9000?
>
> Best
>
> Jason
>
> On 9 March 2013 09:57, Michael Heads <m.j.heads at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Knut Rognes, best known for his work on Diptera, just sent me an
> > unpublished manuscript on teleology, selection etc. This was written in
> > 1988 but is still one of the clearest accounts I've seen and well-worth a
> > read. It's at:
> > http://home.online.no/~k-rognes/Teleologi1.pdf
> > Other Scandinavians who have contributed outstanding, critical accounts
> of
> > neodarwinism include Soren Lovtrup, the vertebrate zoologist.
> >
> > Michael Heads
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Fred Schueler <bckcdb at istar.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Quoting John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> >  Many evolutionists still use
> >> > explicitly teleological explanations while at the same time denying
> that
> >> > their words say what that say. Is this not bizarre?
> >>
> >> * no, it's not bizarre. Descent with modification by natural selection
> >> is the only known mechanism for generating purpose (the ability to do
> >> things that tend to promote survival), so it's not much of a stretch
> >> to refer to the selective function of a structure as the purpose for
> >> its perpetuation. There's a bit more of a stretch to refer to a
> >> purpose for an origin, which involves developmental and evolutionary
> >> pathways, rather than individual development, but to the extent that
> >> there is such a thing as purpose, evolutionary origin is some kind of
> >> a summation of individual 'purposes.'
> >>
> >> fred (though admittedly, in the present case the use of 'purpose' did
> >> grate).
> >> =========================================================
> >>
> >> > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Richard Zander
> >> > <Richard.Zander at mobot.org>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Clearly most of us think that the author did not write "purpose" on
> >> >> purpose.
> >> >>
> >> >> But then, do even humans really have purpose? Or are we just neurons
> >> >> firing in concert following some higher pattern in the universe, and
> we
> >> >> pretend we have free-will and . . . purpose? Perhaps we are all just
> >> >> organic machines, and what we think is purpose is just reflex
> >> >> machination? Or are we living in a big video game following the
> higher
> >> >> purpose of a multidiminsional Xbox?
> >> >>
> >> >> This thread is actually quite bizarre. Whether you think about it .
> . .
> >> >> or not.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ____________________________
> >> >> Richard H. Zander
> >> >> Missouri Botanical Garden, PO Box 299, St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA
> >> >> Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/ and
> >> >> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
> >> >> Modern Evolutionary Systematics Web site:
> >> >> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/21EvSy.htm
> >> >> UPS and FedExpr -  MBG, 4344 Shaw Blvd, St. Louis 63110 USA
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> >> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Curtis
> Clark
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:43 PM
> >> >> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] teleology example
> >> >>
> >> >> On 2013-03-06 6:12 PM, John Grehan wrote:
> >> >> > Here's a nice explicit example: "it's hard to see how these
> hair-like
> >> >> > processes would evolve if they didn't serve a purpose."
> >> >>
> >> >> "Purpose" is often used as an unfortunate substitute for "function"
> by
> >> >> biologists. Sloppy writing doesn't always mean sloppy thinking.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Curtis Clark        http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcclark
> >> >> Biological Sciences                   +1 909 869 4140
> >> >> Cal Poly Pomona, Pomona CA 91768
> >> >>
> >> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Wellington, New Zealand.
> >
> > My new book: *Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *
> > University of California Press, Berkeley.
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> >
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> >
> > Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.
>
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> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched with either of these
> methods:
>
> (1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> (2) a Google search specified as:  site:
> mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here
>
> Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.
>